Episode #443: Interview with Robin Hanson

Joining Ed and Ron this week is Robin D. Hanson of associate professor of economics at George Mason University. Robin is the author of two fascinating books, The Age of Em and The Elephant in the Brain. He has worked with the Foresight Institute and DARPA, but perhaps his colleague at George Mason Bryan Caplan put it best: "When the typical economist tells me about his latest research, my standard reaction is 'Eh, maybe.' Then I forget about it. When Robin Hanson tells me about his latest research, my standard reaction is 'No way! Impossible!' Then I think about it for years."

About Robin Hanson

Robin Dale Hanson is an associate professor of economics at George Mason University and a research associate at the Future of Humanity Institute of Oxford University. He is known for his work on idea futures and markets, and he was involved in the creation of the Foresight Institute's Foresight Exchange and DARPA's FutureMAP project. He invented market scoring rules like LMSR (Logarithmic Market Scoring Rule) used by prediction markets such as Consensus Point (where Hanson is Chief Scientist), and has conducted research on signaling.

Use these AI generated show notes to follow along with the audio.

• Start of the show.
  Meet Robin.
  Welcome to the show, Robin.
  Easier with wires instead of hands.
  Andrew from voice america.

• Interview begins.
  Interview with Robin D Hanson, associate professor of economics..
  Interview begins with a quick bio.
  Concerns about the emergence of LLM/AI.

• Why we’re scared of ai.
  The visceral reaction to AI.
  Sensible regulation for AI vs AI.
  Creating a financial asset based on global assets.
  Robots taking over the world.

• Selling insurance to buy insurance.
  Selling insurance to people who buy the second asset.
  College professor's thoughts on weird questions.
  How Robin generates his weird questions.
  How to get more information about Robin.

• What is the difference between the elephant in the room and the brain?
  The old economics joke about the kid visiting his economics professor.
  The elephant in the brain.
  Part one, the elephant in the room vs the brain.
  Part two, the introspective taboo.

• Why do people consume so much medicine?
  People in developed world consume way too much medicine.
  The booboo theory.
  The hidden motives of other people.
  Signaling the deeper logic of unique behaviors.

• Looking good to people around you.
  Selfish reasons for wanting to look good to others.
  The case against education.
  The story of the New Zealand Maori villager.
  Laughter and having fun.

• Why did you laugh?
  Laughing is a way of checking that humans are still playing.
  Laughter is a play signal.
  How to get more information about robin.
  A word from 90 minds.

• Corporal punishment vs. jail.
  Jail is expensive and corporal punishment is cheaper.
  The Age of Em.

• A way to make smart robots.
  The age of AI and brain emulation.
  The future is different from us.
  The two contrasting ideas in the book.
  The new world of emulated humans.

• Has AI progress sped up?
  Has AI progress sped up in the last eight years.
  Retirement of AI.
  Why AI will save the world. Marc Andreessen.
  The soul of enterprise podcast.

• Worried about the worst case scenarios.
  People are constructing worst-case scenarios.
  The first message, nothing is happening right now.
  Main issue for most people is the otherness of ai.
  The us vs them thing.

• Big player insiders asking for regulation.
  Big player insiders asking for regulation.
  Poverty insurance and basic income guarantee.
  Unconditional money vs unconditional money.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #442: Life After Capitalism — George Gilder

Ed and Ron were excited for their interview with George Gilder, author of the brand new book, Life After Capitalism: The Meaning of Wealth, the Future of the Economy, and the Time Theory of Money, published May 30, 2023. This was George’s fourth appearance on The Soul of Enterprise. He is Ron’s 42-year mentor, since his publication of Wealth & Poverty in 1981, which changed Ron’s life forever after. His latest book is a groundbreaking new theory of economics that, at last, explains capitalism as a knowledge-based system, not one revolving around incentives, greed, or materialism. It is truly groundbreaking, and you will want to hear what George has to say about how it will change our way of understanding economics, wealth, growth, technology, our standard of living, and the future of human flourishing.

About George Gilder

GEORGE GILDER, one of America’s leading economic and technological thinkers, is the author of many groundbreaking books, including Wealth and Poverty, Knowledge and Power, The Scandal of Money, and Life after Google. A founding fellow of the Discovery Institute, where he began his study of information theory, and an influential venture capitalist. He lives with his wife on his family farm in western Massachusetts.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio. George’s quotes are in bold and they are GREAT.

Segment one:

• Fun fact: Our show, The Soul of Enterprise, is named based on George Gilder’s book, The Spirit of Enterprise. https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Enterprise-George-Gilder/dp/0786100532 

• George’s new book, Life After Capitalism, is really a new economic theory based on information theory. It overturns the conventional wisdom based on economics. https://www.amazon.com/Life-after-Capitalism-George-Gilder/dp/1684512247 

• “Wealth is knowledge” is a key principal in George Gilder’s new book, Life After Capitalism. With every doubling of total units sold costs tend to drop between 20-30%. That’s a well documented learning curve across all industries.

• “Entrepreneurship is the process of creating new information adding to the tapestry of knowledge that comprises all wealth.” —George Gilder

• “Money is what remains scarce when everything else grows abundant” —George Gilder

Segment two:

• “Wealth is knowledge and the only way we can distribute wealth is to teach people.” —George Gilder

• For people who create (entrepreneurs), George Gilder says today not he show, “The more possibilities [based on creation] the larger the portfolio of ideas.”

• George blew our mind today with a discussion on Gödel's incompleteness theorems: Any logical system is necessarily dependent on axioms outside of the system that can’t be proven within the system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

• “There is no necessary connection between symbols and objects. You need to interpret them. Reality is triadic.” —George Gilder

Segment three:

• George Gilder was really delighted to read the book “The Box” which tells the history of containerization of all of the ports and trade in the world. https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Economy/dp/0691136408

• “The transmission of anything is essentially an information problem rather than a material problem.” —George Gilder

• Packet shipping (physical goods) and packet switching (data) are effectively the same thing when George Gilder thinks about it. It’s the transfer of discrete, containerized items or data.

• Graphene is a key element discovery that will drive future innovation. It’s effectively a single layer of carbon atoms that is 200x stronger than steel, as flexible as rubber, and 1000x more conductive as copper.  

Segment four:

• Related to Graphene, George Gilder mentioned a company called Universal Matter. You can check them out here https://www.universalmatter.com/ 

• “Money needs to be a measuring stick and not a magic wand.” —George Gilder

• “Bitcoin is a speculative asset rather than a currency. With a HODL strategy (Hold On for Dear Life)” —George Gilder

• The four pillars of George GIlder’s new book, Life After Capitalism, are: Wealth is knowledge, Growth is learning, Information is surprise, Money is time. Check it out here https://www.amazon.com/Life-after-Capitalism-George-Gilder/dp/1684512247 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #441: Grab Bag Galore

We announced at the end of last week that we planned to talk about Peter Block's new book Confronting Our Freedom, however, this week we learned that Peter has agreed to join us in about a month. YES! Because of this good news we pivoted to a topical show. There are a few newsworthy items, including a show review that we shared with you.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• Peter Block is back on the show on June 23rd to talk about his book and “never has the soul of enterprise been in so much jeopardy” to use Block’s words. Plus, we have George Gilder next week! Great shows ahead.

• Was the billable hour destroyed over the last 10 years and it is making a comeback? That was topic number 1 for our grab bag galore today.

• Are there any businesses where the billable hour makes sense? The airline industry with respect to engines. The time in the air is the only time that is billed. Incentives are aligned. But notice this is on an inanimate object.

• Does anybody remember when AOL billed by the hour? And then went to a flat rate model? http://www.famousdaily.com/history/aol-switches-to-flat-monthly-rate.html 

• “If you negotiate on cost plus pricing, you’ve already lost.” —Rory Sutherland

Segment two:

• “Company earnings guidance is wrong about 70pc of the time” by Matthew Boyle https://www.afr.com/markets/equity-markets/company-earnings-guidance-is-wrong-about-70pc-of-the-time-20230524-p5das9

• Goodwill is how accountants describe their ignorance…or something like that :)  Let’s ask ChatGPT, shall we? https://chat.openai.com/share/423d9c90-6bc4-448b-8b9a-3229c9085b46 

• “If I Betray These Words: Moral Injury in Medicine and Why It's So Hard for Clinicians to Put Patients First” by Wendy Dean and Simon Talbot https://www.amazon.com/If-Betray-These-Words-Clinicians/dp/1586423541 

• Moral injury is a new term to Ron. It was first used to describe acts of transgression during the Vietnam War and Ron talked about it today in the context of medicine. https://www.dav.org/get-help-now/veteran-topics-resources/moral-injury/ 

Segment three:

• Sometimes forgotten, Electronic Health Records — when initially mandated — imposed enormous costs on smaller offices.

• Out of network doctors at your in network hospital? If you are in the United States, this is a real concern and has HAPPENED to Ed before.

• [Sarcasm ahead as they received extra shoutouts on the show today] I don’t we say thank you enough to 90Minds, the sponsor of our Patreon channel at Patreon.com/TSOE — If you need a mind, get one at 90Minds.com

Segment four:

• We received a great review from a listener AND guest, Brian Terrell @brian_terrell. Ron and Ed talked about the review live on the show today. 

• Amazon and AWS is a great example of a spinout entity. Why dilute the Amazon consumer brand and confuse the situation with AWS? Ron and Ed talked about this in relation to CPA firms and their bookkeeping work in segment four of today’s show.

• “Advisory services is an oxymoron. Advice is not a service.” —Ed Kless

• Exciting news! Ron Baker, Paul Dunn, and Ed Kless have launched the Time’s Up Club. Audio chapter summaries of the book, Time’s Up, are available for FREE in the free forever plan. Just sign up at TimesUpClub.com  

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #440: Second interview with Dan Mitchell

Ron and Ed last spoke to Dan Mitchell in May of 2020 when Covid was in full swing. For this show, we get an update on the results of the C-19 spending policies and bring the conversation to current tax policies and proposals. Dan opines on his blog International Liberty on a far range of subjects. This was a fascinating conversation.

A Bit More About Dan Mitchell…

Daniel J. Mitchell is a cofounder of the Center for Freedom and Prosperity and the Center for Freedom and Prosperity Foundation. He is one of the nations leading experts on tax reform and supplyside tax policy. In addition to tax policy, Dr. Mitchell is a trenchant observer of economic developments and an expert on Social Security privatization particularly the fiscal policy impact of reform and what the US can learn from other nations that have created personal retirement accounts. Dr. Mitchell’s byline can be found in such national publications as the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and Investors Business Daily. He holds a Ph.D. in Economics from George Mason University and masters and bachelors degrees in economics from the University of Georgia. Mitchell was a senior fellow with the Cato Institute and The Heritage Foundation, and an economist for Senator Bob Packwood and the Senate Finance Committee.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• Should Congress raise the debt ceiling? That was Ron’s FIRST question for Dan today on the show. Just moments prior, government negotiations broke down so this is already turning out to be a great show.

• “Our number one problem is not red ink. The most important thing to understand is that deficits and debt are the symptoms of the real problem which is too much government spending.” —Dan Mitchell

• Dan talked about the Swiss “Debt Brake” on the show today. Here is an article from Cato with his byline about the topic. https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-swiss-debt-brake-tamed-government 

• There is a balanced budget criteria in the EU that is focused on deficits and debt. Does that stop the EU from having big, bloated, high tax governments? No. The spirit behind a balanced budget amendment is admirable but does not work in practice.

Segment two:

• Dan publishes his thoughts almost every single day on his International Liberty blog. Check it out at this link https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/ 

• Dan worries about Universal Basic Income (UBI) because he thinks about the horrible impact the welfare state has had on poorer people. UBI is the welfare state on steroids.

• For background, China is much better off today than they were under Mao. But they’re still way behind the United States (based on IMF, World Bank, OECD numbers) Dan penned, “More Failure for China’s Industrial Policy” https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/04/more-failure-for-chinas-industrial-policy/ 

• Here is more from Dan on Basic Income — “The Horrendous Tax Implications of Basic Income” — https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/03/the-horrendous-tax-implications-of-basic-income/

Segment three:

• Hey Dan, will that extra $80M help the IRS? “It will make the IRS more effective at squeezing money out of small businesses and individuals.”

• Dan Mitchell mentioned this on the show today. The @TaxFoundation has great research on the compliance burden of overall income tax. More here https://taxfoundation.org/ 

• “The tax gap almost certainly is more likely to be more prevalent in cash based businesses.” —Dan Mitchell

Segment four:

• Dan opined on his 11th theorem of government today. Image is attached and more at this link https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/17/big-business-vs-free-enterprise/ 

• “In my fantasy world, we would have separation of business and state. In the real world, I’ll be happy if we can simply block the left’s ESG agenda so that big companies will be forced to earn money in the market rather than steal money via politics.” https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2023/05/17/big-business-vs-free-enterprise/ 

• On the rule of law and how it is not applied equally across bank failures… ”If they touch a hot stove, we want them to burn a finger.” —Dan Mitchell

• A big THANK YOU to Dan Mitchell for joining us today. Check out the Center for Freedom and Prosperity here: https://freedomandprosperity.org/ 

Here is Dan’s Eleventh Theorem of Government:

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #439: Interview with Ian Vásquez

Ron and Ed welcomed Cato Institute's vice president for international studies and director of its Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity, Ian Vasquez. Among other topics, they discussed the latest Human Freedom Index, of which Ian is a co-author. For those of you unfamiliar the Human Freedom Index presents the state of human freedom in the world based on a broad measure that encompasses personal, civil, and economic freedom. Human freedom is a social concept that recognizes the dignity of individuals and is defined here as negative liberty or the absence of coercive constraint. Because freedom is inherently valuable and plays a role in human progress, it is worth measuring carefully. The Human Freedom Index is a resource that can help to more objectively observe relationships between freedom and other social and economic phenomena, as well as the ways in which the various dimensions of freedom interact with one another.

A Bit More About Ian Vásquez…

Ian Vásquez is vice president for international studies at the Cato Institute and director of its Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity. He was a weekly columnist at El Comercio (Peru) from 2014 to 2020, and his articles have appeared in newspapers throughout the United States and Latin America. Vásquez has appeared on CNBC, NBC, C-SPAN, CNN, Telemundo, Univisión, and Canadian Television, as well as NPR and Voice of America, discussing foreign policy and development issues. He received his bachelor’s degree from Northwestern University and his master’s degree from the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University. He is the coauthor of the Human Freedom Index, editor of Global Fortune: The Stumble and Rise of World Capitalism, and coeditor of Perpetuating Poverty: The World Bank, the IMF and the Developing World. He has testified numerous times in the U.S. Congress on economic development issues. Vásquez has been a term member of the Council on Foreign Relations and is a member of the Mont Pèlerin Society.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• Now in the 8th edition, the Human Freedom Index is the only global measurement of economic, personal, and civil liberties of its kind. More here: https://www.cato.org/search/category/human-freedom-index

• How do you define freedom in the with respect to the Human Freedom Index? The goal of the Cato team is a quantifiable measurement of freedom. In this case, freedom is defined as the absence of coercive constraint. https://www.cato.org/search/category/human-freedom-index 

• 94% of the world’s population saw a decline in freedom based on the 2023 Human Freedom Index. COVID-19 was a significant factor in this measurement.

• The United States dropped 7 places to number 23 in the most recent Human Freedom Index. It’s hard to tease out the exact reasons given how fresh the data is. As an example, freedom of movement suffered greatly as an example.

Segment two:

• The Human Freedom Index is co-published with Cato and their friends at the Fraser Institute. More here https://www.cato.org/search/category/human-freedom-index 

• As an example, Singapore has a high economic freedom ranking but the personal freedom score is a bit lower. Switzerland and New Zealand are number 1 and number 2. They rank high both on personal and economic freedom.

• 13% of the world’s population lives in the top quartile of freedom. 40%, the bottom quartile. 75% of the world’s population lives in the bottom half. This is really unequal distribution of freedom as measured by the Human Freedom Index report.

• It is much more important to look at the inequality of freedom as opposed to the inequality of income or wealth distribution. Freedom is what Ian the the Cato team find to be more important when trying to gauge inequality across the world. 

Segment three:

• “Free speech recession” is a phrase that Ian has used a few times during the show today to describe the ever-receding rights of the human population across the globe.

• The story of Hong Kong is a story of freedom and triumph. In the 19th century it was one of the poorest regions in the world. Through trade and economic freedom it became one of the most free (Human Freedom Index) places in the world. Of course, that has changed.

• The control of the economy is the control of life itself.

• The story of one of the great economic freedom successes can be found in Chile. They moved in the direction of a market economy. So why, in 2018, did they experience riots/violence and vote in a far left President who called for a new constitution? Ian addressed this today on the show.

Segment four:

• Ian discussed Ukraine during segment four of the show today. He also penned “What I Saw in Kyiv in 2014” in February 2023 at this link: https://www.cato.org/blog/what-i-saw-kyiv-2014 

• The US has not come up with a good set of policies in dealing with the great challenge of international relations with China. “There are bad answers and less bad answers.” 

• Ron asked Ian about Cuba today based on this article, “Cuba’s Freedom Song” https://www.cato.org/blog/cubas-freedom-song

• “There are no communists in Cuba. Nobody believes in the system.” —Ian Vasquez

• A big THANK YOU to Ian Vasquez for joining us today. He is the co-author of the Human Freedom Index. More at this link https://www.cato.org/search/category/human-freedom-index 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #438: Fifth interview with Joe Woodard

Ron and Ed welcome back Joe Woodard, CEO of Woodard and host of the Scaling New Heights Conference at which Ron and Ed will be delivering keynotes and sessions. We chat about the conference, artificial intelligence, and other issues facing the accounting profession.

A Bit More About Joe Woodard…

As an author, consultant, business coach, and national speaker, Joe has trained over 100,000 accounting and business professionals in areas of practice development, changing technology trends, strategic consulting, and how to maximize the use of accounting software in their practices.In 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017, 2018 Joe was recognized by Accounting Today as one of the Top 100 Influential People within the accounting profession. In 2008, Joe was recognized by CPA Practice Advisor as one of the Top 40 Up and Coming Thought Leaders under the age of 40.Joe regularly publishes articles for Intuit publications and for Insightful Accountant, and Joe has been featured repeatedly in Accounting Today and AccountingWEB in both articles and in video interviews. Joe is the CEO of Woodard Events, LLC which includes education, coaching, resources, and a community for small business advisors and small business owners within the accounting industry.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• Paul Dunn (co-author of Time’s Up!) helped Joe Woodard craft a better vision statement: Every vision statement should have an implied but known…”so that”. 

• For example, the Woodard vision statement is to transform business through business advisors…”so that”? So that business owners can have more intention and capacity to give to their family or other important people in their life.

• Does Joe embrace AI as an opportunity or is he scared of it? He’s not scared but he is nervous from an economic perspective. Can we pivot fast enough so that authors, storytellers, and artists can find a new way to bring the human touch to their work.

• Summarizing Joe’s take on AI: An intelligence - artificial or not - has the ability to draw conclusions and take action. When it can improve upon itself, we can’t even predict what it is capable of doing.

• “Data and knowledge are about the past. They say nothing about the future.” —Ron Baker

• Joe used the word prophetic on the show today and then dropped this one on us! “Wisdom is the fusion of knowledge and soul with a mix of emotion.” —Joe Woodard

Segment two:

• Everything AI came full circle today on the show. Joe suggested that in order to keep AI from becoming too powerful, the “gods” should probably give it different languages so that it is difficult to communicate amongst themselves.

• Ed summarized a great conversation from Russ Roberts and his guests on a recent show: “AI doesn’t know that it knows. Humans don’t know why we know.”

• Joe’s experience with the Metaverse is one in which barriers around age, nationality, and ethnicity are broken down.

• Snowcrash and the MUD from Dungeons and Dragons are two of the earliest known references to what we call the Metaverse today. If you haven’t read Snowcrash by Neil Stephenson, please do :) 

• The history of the Metaverse is inseparable from social media which is why Facebook did what they did in renaming and refocusing the organization as Meta.

Segment three:

• You don’t go to the Metaverse to get your job done. You go to the Metaverse to interact. It breaks down global barriers and language barriers.

• Why haven’t we seen the Metaverse become an economic powerhouse yet? We haven’t seen the aggregation of economies. We haven’t seen further adoption of blockchain technologies. YET.\

• Joe mentioned Metcalfe’s Law on the show today. If you are not familiar, Metcalfe's law states that the financial value or impact of a telecommunications network is proportional to the square of the number of connected users of the system.

• Related to adoption of the Metaverse, there is also a technological barrier right now. The resolution on headsets is still a bit low and that can cause a feeling of nausea in some users.

• Did you know that Accenture purchased 60,000 headsets for VR training? Check out this article https://www.consultancy.uk/news/29463/accenture-buys-60000-oculus-headsets-for-vr-training 

Segment four:

• It’s a little hyperbolic but Joe is known to say, “Give away the compliance to get the advisory.”

• The nature of tier 1 is record keeping and the product is very responsive. The nature of tier 2 is real time, operational, and interpretive in a Controller level. In tier 3, you are a business coach.

• Joe is really excited about Scaling New Heights this year. Leverage the environment around you like a hawk leverages its environment and SOAR. 

• A big THANK YOU to Joe Woodard for joining us today. If you have not recently, check out Woodard.com to see what his team is up to.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #437: Fourth interview with Doug Sleeter

Doug Sleeter was a well-known entrepreneur and thought leader in the accounting industry. He was the founder and former CEO of The Sleeter Group, a company that provided training, consulting, and research services to accounting professionals.

“Sadly, Doug Sleeter passed away in November 2019.” - ChatGPT 3.5, March 2023

Yup, ChatGPT says Doug Is Dead. The good news, he is very much alive and has a bone to pick with ChatGPT. This one is personal.

A Bit More About Doug Sleeter…

Doug Sleeter is the founder and former CEO of The Sleeter Group, an international network of accounting software consultants, and the former producer of SleeterCon, an annual conference for accounting professionals. As a CPA firm veteran and former Apple Computer Evangelist, he melded his two great passions accounting and technology to guide developers in the innovation of new products and to educate and lead accounting professionals who serve small businesses. He is currently focusing on digital currencies and blockchain technology. He was inducted into The CPA Practice Advisor Hall of Fame in the accounting profession, and named to Accounting Todays Top 100 Most Influential People in Accounting, 20082015. Doug attended the University of California Santa Cruz and Santa Clara University, holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Computer Information Systems, and lives in Pleasanton, CA.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• The AICPA was playing around with this new “AI thing” when they asked it, “Who is Doug Sleeter?” and discovered that ChatGPT was hallucinating (and had declared him dead).

• The term, hallucination, is commonly used to describe incorrect information supplied by an AI tool such as ChatGPT.

• “Hasn’t the internet always thrown a bunch of crap at us, including humans?” —Ron Baker on the hallucinations of ChatGPT

• If you have a little bit of data wrong, that’s not a problem. In aggregate, lots of small issues become a bigger one. Then AI enters the stage and we are struggling to correct its hallucinations.

• “You have to have some basic human discernment in order to create a prompt for [ChatGPT].” —Ed Kless

Segment two:

• “We talked in the last segment about big bad data. These hallucinations from ChatGPT are creating more data that someone is going to record on a ledger somewhere. How can this be good?” —Doug Sleeter

• It can pass the bar but ChatGPT has a problem with accounting tests. “ChatGPT is still no match for humans when it comes to accounting” https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/986867 

• The creation of an AI generated deepfake is not the problem but what about the reaction to it. Just as Doug had a reaction to being proclaimed deceased, our government is having a reaction to AI in general as well.

• “AI apocalypticism is thinly veiled political fund-raising pitch” https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/ai-apocalypticism-is-a-thinly-veiled-fund-raising-pitch/ 

Segment three:

• The paper clip problem. What is it and why would AI be hell bent on destroying us to make more paperclips? https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/ai-and-paperclip-problem 

• Do you know about Isaac Asimov’s 3 laws of robotics? Written in 1941 in his short story runaround https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaround_(story)#:~:text=The%20plot%20revolves%20around%20the,conflict%20with%20the%20First%20Law.  

• We swerved into the philosophy lane today on the show: Human judgement, morality, and creativity were all significant factors when Sully landed his plane in the Hudson River. How would an AI system have acted?

• On AI: “The contextual piece is critical and it is what makes us human.” —Doug Sleeter

Segment four:

• This is GENIUS. Doug Sleeter has the ultimate test for AI. It’s better than the Turing test for sure. “Would my dog befriend an AI and consider it to be its master?”

• “We do overestimate the impact of technology in the short term and overestimate it in the long term,” as summarized by Ron on today’s show.

• A big THANK YOU to Doug Sleeter for joining us today. To all who were concerned about ChatGPT’s designation of him as deceased, do not fret. He is very much alive and ready to set the ChatGPT record straight.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #436: Second interview with Joe Pine

We first spoke with Joe Pine way back in March of 2015 primarily about his books, The Experience Economy and Infinite Possibility. Our key takeaway from Joe's work is his Economic Value Progression graph which asserts that transformations are the highest level (at least in this world). This insight has become even more important as organizations move to subscription based models. We are looking forward to getting Joe's take and ask him about his recent piece in the Harvard Business Review - The "New You" Business.

A Bit More About Joe Pine…

Co-author of The Experience Economy, Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. In 2020 Mr. Pine and his partner James H. Gilmore re-released in hardcover The Experience Economy: Competing for Customer Time, Attention, and Money featuring an all-new Preview to their best-selling 1999 book The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre & Every Business a Stage. The book demonstrates how goods and services are no longer enough; what companies must offer today are experiences – memorable events that engage each customer in an inherently personal way. It further shows that in today’s Experience Economy companies now compete against the world for the time, attention, and money of individual customers. The Experience Economy has been published in fifteen languages and was named one of the 100 best business books of all time by 800ceoread (now Porchlight). Mr. Pine also co-wrote Infinite Possibility: Creating Customer Value on the Digital Frontier with Kim Korn, Authenticity: What Consumers Really Want with Mr. Gilmore in 2007, and in 1993 published his first book, the award-winning Mass Customization: The New Frontier in Business Competition. Each book details Mr. Pine’s breakthrough thinking as he has accurately charted many structural shifts — from individualizing goods to today’s focus on customer experiences and many other changes in the economy and consumer sensibility.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• It is said that economic eras have always been named based on the output. That would explain why we are big fans of Joe Pine’s book, The Experience Economy https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975/ 

• Are we moving into the transformation economy? According to Joe, yes. We are transforming through the experiences we have.

• “What transformations do is they change us from the inside out.” —Joe Pine

• If you weren’t paying attention, it’s understandable to have missed the difference between commodification, commoditization, and customization. I can’t do Joe’s words justice in a tweet so listen to him go through it in segment one of our show today

• “Any company that is in the business of making you healthy, wealthy and wise is in the transformation business.” —Joe Pine

Segment two:

• The New Your Business is an article co-written by Joe Pine in Harvard Business Review. If you have not read it yet, please do yourself a big favor and click/tap this link https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

• Rarely is their one life transforming experience. More often it is a progression…a series of successes.

• The Five Whys method is simple: when a problem occurs, you drill down to its root cause by asking "Why?" five times. Then, when a counter-measure becomes apparent, you follow it through to prevent the issue from recurring.

Segment three:

• Charging for the outcome and NOT the activities is a part of what it means to be in the transformation business.

• The subscription pricing model gets you to the experience level (which is close to transformation). “You are what you charge for.” —Joe Pine

• “Once you start charging for OUTCOMES it changes how you do things.” —Joe Pine

• What is the difference between insurance, assurance, and ensurance? Joe talked through this during segment three of the show today.

Segment four:

• There are 3 phases of transformation as defined in Joe’s book: the up front diagnosis, the design of a set of experiences, and the follow through

• Many of the folks that Ron and Ed work with are used to stacking services. “Designing the offering” is a critical section for you towards the end of Joe’s HBR article. More here: https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

• “Transformation business models will be much harder to imitate than those that offer only goods, services, or experiences. And they promise to generate a handsome reward.” https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business  

• A big THANK YOU to Joe Pine for joining us today. Please check out his books, The Experience Economy and Infinite Possibility as well as his HBR article, The “New You” Business https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #435: Tribute to Dr. Reginald Lee, R.I.P.

Dr. Reginald Lee is survived by his wife and 4 children. One of his children suffers from a rare disease. If Dr. Reginald Lee touched your life, please consider contributing at this GoFundMe link.

It is with heavy hearts that Ed and Ron share the news of Dr. Reginald Lee's passing on March 8, 2023. He was a dear friend, a mentor, a teacher, and a maverick who was fearless in challenging the conventional wisdom of cost accounting. We were privileged to know him and be able to spend time with him. We will also keep his teaching and his legacy alive. Join us to celebrate the life and work of this dear friend, who leaves behind the imperishable crown of a good name. Read more tributes to Reginald at: https://www.hodappfuneralhome.com/obituaries/reginald-lee

A Bit More About Dr. Reginald Lee…

Reginald is survived by his beloved wife Tamara, children Sunny (Sam Rugg), Sophia, Rey, Isabella, Ashton and his grandson, Shepard. He also leaves behind his dear nephews Marcus and Michael Lee and his cherished siblings Marc Lee (Adriana), and Wynnette Lee. He was the son of the late Rudolph and Winifred Lee. Reginald held close the values they instilled in him and his mother remained a beautiful light in his life. Reginald grew up in Dayton, Ohio. He graduated from the University of Dayton with a PhD in mechanical engineering. As an engineer with a passion for business and math, Reginald was a pioneer in debunking the validity of accounting information for managerial purposes. As a replacement, he developed Business Domain Management, a mathematically sound operations and cash business framework. His work has proven valuable in helping leaders see, understand, and manage their operational and cash performance. He was a corporate advisor and founded Business Dynamics & Research using cash-based business models he created. In addition to his ongoing work at BDR, he also taught at Xavier University's Williams College of Business. Previously, he had worked for a number of major global brands including EY, GM, IBM, Oracle and Clark Schaefer. Reginald was also a prolific writer, authoring five books and publishing more than 30 articles in magazines such as APICS, Cincinnati Business Courier, Industrial Management, and Journal of Cost Management.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• Ron first met Dr. Reginald Lee online during a FIERCE debate on cost accounting. Reginald left several comments on LinkedIn with arguments that Ron had never seen before and he knew he needed to have a deeper conversation. 

• During their first in-person meeting, Ron and Ed learning something valuable from Dr. Reginald Lee. “Cost is an opinion.”

• Because Dr. Reginald Lee wasn’t an accountant, one of the refutations Ron/Ed often heard was “he’s not an accountant” (he’s an engineer). But in his campaign against cost accounting, what many forget is that cost accounting was developed by engineers.

Segment two:

• Ed has NO IDEA how Dr. Reginald Lee ended up as a Yankees fan (how does anyone end up as a Yankees fan?) but it was a fun rivalry given what everyone should know about Ed Kless. Ed is most definitely a Mets fan.

• Dr. Reginald Lee worked at Boeing and General Motors. He had a love of sports and fast cars. He was outgoing and, with an ability to communicate to his college class with an engineering background, was unique in his own right.

• The funeral home has a page on Dr. Reginald Lee along with tributes on the page from friends and family. https://www.hodappfuneralhome.com/obituaries/reginald-lee 

• In tribute to Dr. Reginald Lee, “Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not.” —Robert F. Kennedy https://www.hodappfuneralhome.com/obituaries/reginald-lee 

Segment three:

• Ed had the honor of writing the forward to Dr. Reginald Lee’s most recent book, Project Profitability. https://www.amazon.com/Project-Profitability-Ensuring-Improvement-Projects/dp/1637421699  

• Ron had the honor of writing the forward to Dr. Reginald Lee’s book, Strategic Cost Transformation. https://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Cost-Transformation-Business-Management/dp/1631578790/ 

• “A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure.” Segal's Law summarizes the confusion behind cost accounting and why Dr. Reginald Lee’s work was so important.

Segment four:

• Dr. Reginald Lee kept a list of all of his appearances on The Soul of Enterprise PLUS other appearances. More here: https://www.bdrco.org/interviews 

• “Cost Accounting, R.I.P.” — An article by Ron Baker that mentions the work of Dr. Reginald Lee. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140123194426-38251380-cost-accounting-r-i-p/ 

• “The Death of Cost Accounting” A book review by Ron Baker in which he recounts meeting Dr. Reginald Lee and getting to know his work. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/death-cost-accounting-book-review-ron-baker/ 

• “Why Timesheets Focus Firm Leaders on the Wrong Things” — An article in which Ron Baker recounts the work of Dr. Reginald Lee and talks about why cost accounting is a bad idea. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-timesheets-focus-firm-leaders-wrong-things-ron-baker/ 

• Dr. Reginald Lee is survived by his wife and 4 children. One of the children suffers from a rare disease. There is more information at this GoFundMe link: https://www.gofundme.com/f/tamara-and-family 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #434: Second interview with Timothy Chou

Back in October of 2016, Ron and Ed interviewed Professor Timothy Chou of Stanford about his books Cloud: Seven clear business models and Precision: Principles, Practices and Solutions for the Internet of Things. This time around we were pleased to get an update on his work and talk a bit more about AI and the recent explosion of interest around ChatGPT.

A Bit More About Timothy Chou…

Timothy Chou has been a leader in bringing enterprises to the cloud. In 2000 he returned to Oracle to become the first President of the company’s cloud computing business. While at Oracle he published the landmark book The End of Software, which predicted the rise of SaaS applications. He has been an advisor to many Silicon Valley startups and today serves as the Chairman of Alchemist Accelerator, focused on early stage enterprise software companies. He also serves on the public company board of Teradata.

Timothy has a parallel career in academics. He taught introductory computer architecture for 15 years at Stanford University. In 2006 he launched the first class on cloud computing, CS309A. The class has had over one hundred public company CEOs as guest lecturers.

He has come out of retirement to work on his last great project - the Pediatric Moonshot. The moon shot mission is to transform children's healthcare globally by creating real-time, privacy-preserving applications based on the data from 1,000,000 healthcare machines in all 500 children’s hospitals in the world. In the process he has founded Bevelcloud to build and deploy a decentralized, in-the-building edge cloud service, which is architected for AI applications in medicine.

Show outline:

• Casa Bonita is taking reservations for events starting in July.

• My books are temporarily gone because I had new carpeting put in.

• What’s next for AI?

• What does the future look like for the world of work?

• The story of how he got started with the Pediatric Moonshot.

• There are only 3000 pediatric cardiologists in the whole country, which is amazingly few.

• The fine art of coexisting securely and managed way is one of the innovations we’ve had to make.

• Sponsor: CFO Bookshelf

• The importance of the ImageNet contest and how it has changed the world.

• Doctors use a website called GlassHospital.com to make difficult diagnoses that no other doctor can figure out.

• What’s the problem with the old centralized mechanism?

• What are you going to do with this?

• The cost side of accounting is fascinating. The medical establishment is not.

• What’s so exciting about this tech?

• How to get the word out about this show?

• Gorbachev’s speech at Moscow State University

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #433: Interview with Hector Garcia CPA

Ron and Ed welcomed Hector Garcia, CPA to the show. We talked about the business model for professionals and all things technology including AI. Hector is a long-time listener and has put many of the ideas we talk about into practice at his organization Quick Bookkeeping of Miami LLC, a family owned practice that has been helping small business with their tax and accounting needs for over 13 years in Doral and all over the world. His YouTube channel has over 222,000 subscribers.

A Bit More About Hector…

Hector Garcia is a Certified Public Accountant (CPA), licensed in Florida; entrepreneur, and YouTuber who specializes in providing educational content on accounting, finance, and business management. He has a strong online presence through his YouTube channel and Facebook Groups, where he shares tutorials, lectures, and expert advice on a variety of topics, including QuickBooks, tax preparation, financial analysis, and small business management. Hector holds several Master/Post-graduate degrees in Accounting, Finance, and Taxation from Florida International University. He is also Certified Advanced QuickBooks ProAdvisor. He is also the founder and current CEO of Quick Bookkeeping & Accounting LLC, a Miami-based firm founded in 2009.

You can find Hector at these links:

YouTube
Facebook Group
LinkedIn
Right Tool

Use these notes to follow along with the show

Segment one:

• Hector started in technology working for GeekSquad! From there, at a bank he found his passion for technology and banking. Yada. Yada. Yada. He is now a business owner and guest on The Soul of Enterprise! More here: https://hectorgarcia.com/ 

• What Hector really loves is empowering people to take control over their own lives — to have confidence in their work and the decisions they make in their business. His YouTube channel is great. https://www.youtube.com/c/HectorGarciaCPA 

• “I help people take more vacations.” —Hector Garcia CPA

• Hector’s YouTube channel is mostly focused on business, profitability, and accounting. However, the channel is a reflection of his life and features a few videos with his children as well. https://www.youtube.com/c/HectorGarciaCPA 

• So what about ChatGPT? Hector uses it to get a head start on some of his work. For example, he has used it to help draft small agreements for customers. Then he asks those customers to send it to lawyer and saves them some time (and money). 

Segment two:

• What are Hector’s thoughts on accounting industry labor shortages? Every tax season is like a punch in the face. “The next one will be my last.” 

• “If you are able to charge your client as a percentage of the value you create, it gets a lot easier to compensate your employees proportionately. The problem we have is many firms bill by the hour.” —Hector Garcia CPA

• “Everyone knows that if you jump from firm to firm, you can increase your salary but staying in the same firm you only get an inflation adjustment. Why have we — the accounting industry — not addressed this problem with dynamic compensation plans?”

Segment three:

• Hector is obsessed with the “magic prompt” that makes ChatGPT more than a novelty. He started asking ChatGPT to write code for him so that he could speak in the same language as his programmer.

• 1/2 Bank statements from clients have lots of transactions and many are unknown. Right now, you have to take an unknown transaction and use Google to figure out the detail. It could take you 10 minutes to figure out what a single $37 transaction might be for.

• 2/2 So can you use ChatGPT to speed this up? Through some quick prompt engineering, Hector finds it is much quicker to research unknown transactions in this way.

• Let’s say you could plug in your tax software and data into ChatGPT. “Hey, which of my clients own a home?” “Which of my clients has international income?” It could go through your entire dataset and scour it for answers to complex questions.

Segment four:

• What made Hector want to transition his firm to a subscription billing model? Listening to Ron and Ed for many years certainly helped! 

• In the coming months, Hector’s firm will be on the forefront of technology as they change and evolve. The only way to do this with predictable revenue is through the subscription model.

• That’s a wrap! Thank you VERY MUCH to Hector Garcia, CPA for joining us today. Check out more of his work on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/c/HectorGarciaCPA 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #432: Interview with Stephan Kinsella - Abolishing IP

Ron and Ed recently welcomed patent attorney and advocate for abolishing intellectual property, Stephan Kinsella to the show. We explored what is (and is not) intellectual property and then had a conversation about why Stephan thinks these forms of property should not exist and why the world would be better if they did not.

A Bit More About Stephan…

N. Stephan Kinsella (LL.M., King’s College London-University of London; JD, Paul M. Hebert Law Center, LSU; BSEE and MSEE, LSU) is a libertarian writer and registered patent attorney in Houston. He has spoken, lectured and published widely on various areas of libertarian legal theory and on legal topics such as intellectual property law and international law. His  publications include Law in a Libertarian World: Legal Foundations of a Free Society  (Papinian Press, forthcoming) Against Intellectual Property (Mises Institute, 2008), International Investment, Political Risk, and Dispute Resolution: A Practitioner’s Guide (Oxford, 2020), and several others.

Use these notes to follow along with the show:

Segment one:

• Ron first heard Stephan Kinsella on the Tom Woods show, episode 2145. Link is here: https://tomwoods.com/ep-2145-does-intellectual-property-exist/ 

• Stephan started out of law school in a big law firm. He has been a solo practitioner for the last 8-10 years but he’s “pretty much” retired now :) 

• Stephan published the original article about 20 years ago, “Against Intellectual Property” and here is a new, more general approach to the same article: https://c4sif.org/2022/05/against-intellectual-property-after-twenty-years-looking-back-and-looking-forward/ 

• Everyone believes in property rights BUT property rights in any non-Libertarian system is summarized as, “You own your own stuff unless the government says otherwise.”

• “Wealth is the subjective appraisal of things you own” —Stephan Kinsella

• Stephan referenced the Sweat of the Brow Doctrine earlier today on the show. Here’s a good starting point for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat_of_the_brow

Segment two:

• While working in Big Law, Stephan “billed every tenth of an hour every 6 minutes.” This was referred to internally in the firm as a shizzle. 

• Stephan has a great description of contracts on the show today. Contracts are all about communication by the owner as to whether they will or will not allow other people to use their resources (either temporarily or permanently).

• The 4 main categories of IP in the United States are: patent, copyright, trademark, and trade secrets. Stephan goes into detail about this during segment two of the show.

• In theory, patents are effectively monopoly control for 20 years that allows you to charge monopoly prices. There is no evidence that patents induce innovation whatsoever. 

• Patents kill. LITERALLY. Read more from Stephan Kinsella here: https://mises.org/wire/patents-kill-compulsory-licenses-and-genzymes-life-saving-drug 

Segment three:

• “The Overwhelming Empirical Case Against Patent and Copyright” by Stephan Kinsella: https://c4sif.org/2012/10/the-overwhelming-empirical-case-against-patent-and-copyright/ 

• “Law and Intellectual Property in a Stateless Society” by Stephan Kinsella http://libertarianpapers.org/1-law-intellectual-property-stateless-society/

• Most libertarians find some areas of libertarian theory more interesting than others. Stephan’s own passion has always been rights theory and related areas, such as the theory of contracts, causation, and punishment. More here: https://mises.org/library/intellectual-property-and-libertarianism 

• Despite the fact that there is widespread copying, the amount of art, design, music, and movies is greater than ever. Piracy/copying is obviously not a hinderance to progress.

Segment four:

• “Attribution have nothing to do with copyright.” —Stephan Kinsella

• “Plagiarism is simply representing someones work as your own. It has nothing to do with copyright.” —Stephan Kinsella

• If you buy a fake Rolex for $20, there is no fraud involved. The buyer knows the Rolex is fake. Stephan talked through this during the last segment of our show today.

• A big THANK YOU to our guest today, Stephan Kinsella. His work is deep and focused on abolishing IP. Check out StephanKinsella.com for links to his work.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #431: Interview with Mark P. Mills

In his book, The Cloud Revolution, Mark P. Mills explains how the conventional wisdom on how technology will change the future is wrong and lays out a radically different and optimistic vision for what’s really coming. According to Mark, a convergence of technologies will instead drive an economic boom over the coming decade, one that historians will characterize as the “Roaring 2020s.” It will come not from any single big invention, but from the confluence of radical advances in three primary technology domains: microprocessors, materials, and machines.

A Bit More About Mark…

Mark P. Mills is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a faculty fellow at Northwestern University’s McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science. He is also a strategic partner with Montrose Lane (an energy-tech venture fund). Previously, Mills cofounded Digital Power Capital, a boutique venture fund, and was chairman and CTO of ICx Technologies, helping take it public in 2007. Mills is author of the book The Cloud Revolution: How the Convergence of New Technologies Will Unleash the Next Economic Boom and a Roaring 2020s (Encounter Books, 2021), and host of the new podcast The Last Optimist. He is also author of Digital Cathedrals (2020), and Work in the Age of Robots (2018). Mills earlier coauthored (with Peter Huber) The Bottomless Well: The Twilight of Fuel, the Virtue of Waste, and Why We Will Never Run Out of Energy (Basic Books, 2005). His articles have been published widely, including in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, USA Today, and Real Clear. Mills has appeared as a guest on CNN, Fox, NBC, PBS, and The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. In 2016, Mills was named “Energy Writer of the Year” by the American Energy Society. Earlier, Mills was a technology advisor for Bank of America Securities and coauthor of the Huber-Mills Digital Power Report, a tech investment newsletter. He has testified before Congress numerous times, and briefed state public-service commissions and legislators. Mills served in the White House Science Office under President Reagan.

Buy on Amazon

Use these notes to follow along with the show:

Segment one:

• Our show bumper — featuring Ronald Reagan — epitomizes Mark’s book, The Cloud Revolution. It’s an incredibly clear statement about there being no limits to growth. More about the book here: https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Revolution-Convergence-Technologies-Economic/dp/1641772301

• The 1920s tell us a lot about behavior. What intrigues Mark about this era was the confluence of events that can tell us so much about the 2020’s. History can’t predict the future but the patterns can help us understand.

• Airplanes achieved utility value in the 1920s. The expansion of telephony. The beginning of the modern science era. Mark’s book features a MUCH larger list of the combination of things that caused the greatest advancement of wealth in human history.

• This is simple and brilliant from Mark. How is the cloud different from the internet. “The cloud is different from the internet as the internet is different from the telephone networks.”

Segment two:

• Americans, broadly speaking, are very tolerant of cultural and political experimentation. Everything is a cycle and the American pendulum swings a little more easily than in Europe or Canada. The underlying culture of America is what led to our economic flourishing.

• What people believe matters. Economists are reluctant to admit the extent to what people believe influences economic growth.

• Anthropomorphic robots are an example in Mark’s book. Where will they have utility? That’s harder to predict than predicting that we will have them at all. More here: https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Revolution-Convergence-Technologies-Economic/dp/1641772301 

• Directly from Mark’s book: Revolutions happen at the intersection of three spheres: the machine, the materials, and the information https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Revolution-Convergence-Technologies-Economic/dp/1641772301 

Segment three:

• The amount of power required for JUST the future of edge computing is equivalent to all commercial HVAC systems today combined. Can or will we generate enough power to keep up? Mark’s answer was great in that “CAN” and “WILL” are very different.

• Mark spent his first days in the United States as a commercial science adviser at 3 mile island…the week after the accident. As a power expert, Mark postulates that small nuclear reactors will become increasingly important. 

• Mark was pleased and surprised to find that there are something like 50 designs for new, small nuclear reactors. Some are small enough to power a house. That’s a newfound fact after writing The Cloud Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Revolution-Convergence-Technologies-Economic/dp/1641772301

• 20% of the worlds energy goes into making electricity. If you switch all of them to nuclear energy, you’ll take away 10-15% of the need for hydrocarbons. Meaning…it will have no impact on the demand 20 years from now but still remains important.

Segment four:

• George Gilder’s peer-to-peer argument is not necessarily in direct conflict with Mark’s view in The Cloud Revolution. Both are possible and both are happening simultaneously. More here: https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Revolution-Convergence-Technologies-Economic/dp/1641772301 

• Networks are like peaches. They have a strong core and the surface gets larger faster (the surface is the edge for those following along with the analogy).

• “The technologies don’t exist” to achieve no use of hydrocarbons. The real debate is the amount of hydrocarbons in use in 20 years. 

• A big THANK YOU to Mark P. Mills for joining us today. Folks, he is an expert and thinker that fits right in with our other guests. Do yourself a favor and check out his book, The Cloud Revolution, at this link: https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Revolution-Convergence-Technologies-Economic/dp/1641772301

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #430: LIVE from the 2023 Meeting of the Minds

Ron and Ed once again took the show on the road. For the third time, they were honored to appear at the Meeting of the Minds. Aside from taking questions from the attendees, they had a conversation about an Harvard Business Review article from Joe Pine et al entitled, The “New You” Business.

Use these notes to follow along with the show:

Segment one:

• The “New You” Business is a recent article from Joe Pine et al. We spend the first part of the show talking about it. Link is here: https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

• So what is the “New You”? It’s about a hierarchy of value from products to services to experiences to transformations.

• 1/4 When you sell things, you have a commodity business. How do you de-commoditize a commodity?

• 2/4 What happens when your product becomes a commodity? You wrap some services around your product.

• 3/4 What happens when your service becomes a commodity? If you can throw in an experience which is memorable…now you are in the experience business.

• 4/4 What happens when your experience becomes commodity? Then you provide transformations because you are guiding the customer from where they are to a desired future state. That makes the customer the product.

• “All too often fitness centers, medical providers, colleges, and organizations in many other industries seek to distinguish themselves only on the quality, convenience, and experience of what they sell.” From The “New You” Business by Joe Pine et al. Link is here: https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

• “A professional is someone who is responsible for creating a result instead of doing a task.” Ron Baker

Segment two:

• Sponsored by @90Minds, our Patreon channel at Patreon.com/TSOE provides commercial free and bonus episodes to our members. Need a mind? Find one at 90Minds.com!

• “The person has to want to be transformed.” —Ron Baker. So simple, kinda funny, and is at the heart of how you can guide a customer towards transformation.

• “How many times have you completed 80% of the work but only 20% of the value was realized because you didn’t get to do the stuff at the end?” —Ed Kless

• “Such business models [those focused on transformations] will be much harder to imitate than those that offer only goods, services, or experiences. And they promise to generate handsome rewards” — More here: https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

• Ed Kless told the landscaper story again today from Tim Williams (@timwilliamsicg) and it NEVER GETS OLD. An archived video of the story is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5wzlVplZ34 

• Referenced by Ron Baker today, here is a link to the “Willy Wonka” of coffee — Starbucks Reserve https://www.starbucksreserve.com 

Segment three:

• It’s time for questions from the audience! The first one is from Gary Feldman of IBN: What is the end goal beyond the profitability when you are talking about transformations?

• The result of your business is profit. The PURPOSE is not profit. John Mackey from Whole Foods says profit in a business is like red blood cells in your body. Nobody wakes up in the morning with the PURPOSE of producing red blood cells.

• Another audience question: What is the nature of companies that are interested in a true transformation?

• An audience question from Wayne Schulz: How, as consultants, do we start to convince our customer that it is a good idea to pay us to project manage a transformation when we’ve never done so in the past? 

• Ron referenced the Direct Primary Care business model today and we’ve had a GREAT guest on the show several times. Dr. Paul runs a DPC and wrote the book on how to do it. More here: https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/269 

Segment four:

• In a previous show, Ed asked ChatGPT to produce an “ABOUT” page on a website for an accounting firm. It was eerily accurate because it was plain, boring, and pretty vanilla.

• A few weeks ago, we had Chris Vanover on the show to talk about his audit subscription services. More here: https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/423 

• “People that have more money than time will pay for a level of convenience.” —Ron Baker

• And that’s a wrap! Thank you VERY MUCH to our great audience at The Meeting of the Minds!

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #429: One Thing! Part Two!

Inspired by A. J. Jacobs when he appeared on Russ Robert's great podcast EconTalk (and Curly from City Slickers), Ron and Ed have each been keeping a "One Thing" journal for the last few years. They first shared from this journal back in October 2021, but the time has come to share some more of their best "One Things."

Editor’s note:

• Instead of the typical show note format, we have organized both Ron and Ed’s ONE THING into discrete lists below.

Ron’s ONE THING:

• Prefer clarity over agreement. —meeting of the minds, Mortimer Adler

• Unearned self-esteem is narcissism

• DRIP = Data rich, insight poor

• FISH = First In, Still Here

• There are 2 types of laws. There is law and there is legislation. Laws are descriptive (like gravity). Legislation is prescriptive (and arbitrary like the 55MPH speed limit).

• Want to get rich quick? Count your blessings

• Wisdom enters through the wound

• Pedro Domingos of the University of Washington (while on EconTalk) says, “People worry that computers will get too smart and take over the world, but the real problem is that they’re too stupid and that they’ve already taken over the world.”

• When you have to express something that you are pessimistic about, Ron like’s to quote George Will’s “Ohio in 1895 Theory of history”: In 1895 in Ohio, there were two automobiles in entire state — and they collided!

• Famous chefs have said that technique trumps ingredient

• Paula Scher created the Citi logo on a napkin during the pitch meeting. She’s famous for saying, “People love to buy process”

• From Ron’s list, he often uses this quote when people ask what is public choice theory? James Buchanan’s Public Choice Theory says, “It’s Government without romance.”

• “Before we decide which opera singer is better, we should listen to both.” What George Stigler is talking about is capitalism vs. socialism — or reality vs. utopia

• From Ron’s ONE THING list courtesy of Mark Twain: “If pro is the opposite of con, then the opposite of progress must be Congress.”

• On defensive decision making from Rory Sutherland: B2C is where people are avoiding regret. B2B is where people are avoiding blame.

• “The best history, is written when we realize that people acted in expectation of a future that was never going to happen.” - Roy Foster on Conversations with Tyler

• “Thinking about the unthinkable is interesting.” —Herman Kahn

• “Don't be thinking your ambition is corrupt." - Jordan Peterson when asked for his advice for incoming freshmen at college by Peter Robinson

Ed’s ONE THING:

• What decision do you or your firm need to make over the next 3 to 6 months?

• Regarding the The Vampire Problem: We don’t know if we would be better off becoming a vampire until after we become a vampire. Substitute parent, spouse or other life choice for vampire

• Courtesy of Michal Munger, here is a ONE THING from Ed: Capitalism does NOT start with the premise that greed is good. Capitalism starts with the premise greed is a human failing and harnesses that to benefit consumer sovereignty

• From Ed (with the obvious disclaimer that this is a personal view and nothing more): It should be just as discrediting to call someone a Marxist as it is a Nazi

• The US Constitution is the prettiest pig in an ugly pig competition.

• To insure something is to enter into a financial arrangement in which you pay premiums in exchange for a future payment in case of the loss of or damage to the thing insured. If you are making sure that something is going to happen, you ensure it. Different words, different meanings. - Kevin Williamson

• Great improvisers are incredibly well prepared. Great improvisation requires an incredible amount of practice and preparation.

• From Ed we have Christopher Buckley’s “Yuppie Nuremberg Defense” — “I was only paying the mortgage!”

• We like it when our friends like what we like, but we really hate it when they don't hate what we hate.

• If you think the sanctions against Russia will be an effective tool by isolating them economically AND you think we should buy American/locally to eliminate the “trade deficit,” it is time for you to pause and reflect.

• This is a great ONE THING from Ed towards the end of the show. Courtesy of Rory Sutherland: “But what if we make it pink and increase the price.”

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #428: The Muppets in Moscow with Natasha Lance Rogoff

Editor’s notes:

• Natasha Lance Rogoff has a great website with more information. Click here to visit.

• The audiobook, hardcover, and Kindle versions of Muppets in Moscow are all available at this link.

Show notes:

Ed and Ron were honored to welcome Natasha Lance Rogoff to The Soul of Enterprise. After the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, the timing appeared perfect to bring Sesame Street to millions of children living in the former Soviet Union. With the Muppets envisioned as ideal ambassadors of Western idealistic values, no one anticipated just how challenging and dangerous this would prove to be. In Muppets in Moscow, Natasha Lance Rogoff brings the story to life. Lance Rogoff, a young American television producer fluent in Russian, was chosen to lead a crew of hundreds of American and Russian artists, producers, educators, writers, and puppeteers to create the Russian adaptation. During the production, against the backdrop of bombings and the assassination of her Russian broadcast partners, Lance Rogoff and the team remained determined to bring laughter, learning, and a new way of seeing the world to children in Russia. In her book, she illuminates how cultural clashes colored nearly every aspect of the production, from the show’s educational framework to scriptwriting to the new Russian Muppets themselves, often pitting Sesame Street’s Western values against nearly four centuries of Russian thought. In spite of the challenges, the show would go on to become a major hit, airing for over a decade. Muppets in Moscow explores post-Soviet societal tensions that continue to thwart the Russian people’s efforts to create a better future for their country. More than just a story of a children’s show, it provides a valuable perspective of Russia’s people, their culture, and their complicated relationship with the West that remains more relevant than ever today.

About Natasha Lance Rogoff

Natasha Lance Rogoff is an award-winning American television producer, filmmaker, and journalist who has produced television news and documentaries in Russia, Ukraine, and the former Soviet Union for CBS, NBC, ABC, and PBS. Lance Rogoff executive produced Ulitsa Sezam, the Russian adaptation of Sesame Street, between 1993 and 1997. She also produced Plaza Sesamo in Mexico. In addition to her television work, Lance Rogoff has reported on Soviet underground culture as a documentary director and magazine and newspaper writer for major international media outlets. Today, she produces content for television and digital platforms and is the CEO and founder of an ed-tech company. An associate fellow in Harvard University’s Art, Film, and Visual Studies department, she divides her time between Cambridge, MA and New York City.

Use these notes to follow along with the show:

Segment one:

• Natasha’s story starts long before her book, Muppets in Moscow. She changed her name at 16 and briefly moved to Venezuela for a summer to learn how to speak Spanish. She was fascinated with other cultures from a very young age.

• What was it like to live in Russian during the Cold War? “It was a period of stagnant Soviet leaders but also an incredibly vibrant underground culture.” —Natasha Lance Rogoff 

• So how did Natasha end up bringing Sesame Street to Moscow? “Totally randomly” was her tongue in cheek answer and the book goes into the details. More information here: https://www.natashalancerogoff.com/ 

• When bringing Sesame Street to the former Soviet Union, the whole idea was that the show would reflect the country’s values and culture, not that it would be a carbon copy of the American show.

Segment two:

• Sesame Street, in part, teaches children about society. While in Moscow, Natasha suggested, “What about a lemonade stand?” The suggestion was met with horror (in a funny way) as it was illegal in the USSR to sell on the streets as an independent.

• When creating content for Sesame Street in Russia, it was challenging because there wasn’t an opposition to Capitalism itself. However, it was more about a lack of understanding because the Russian people did not know how it looked.

• In Chapter 5 of Muppets in Moscow, Natasha describes a financing meeting with 12 prominent men. She was the only woman in the room. Shockingly, the management team at Sesame Workshop said “no” to financing by the Russian Mafia :)  

• Every Sesame Street international production involves bringing foreign staff and partners to Sesame Workshop in Manhattan. In segment two today, Natasha describes the gap in knowledge and understanding between the US and Russian staff.

Segment three:

• While working hard to bring Sesame Street to Moscow, the office in Moscow was raided by soldiers. The soldiers STOLE Elmo! Seriously, Elmo was stolen by Russian soldiers and the full story is in the book, Muppets in Moscow. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1538161281/ 

• There is a book trailer for Muppets in Moscow and it is WORTH an entire one minute of your time. Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iF_c2dgels 

Segment four:

• During auditions for Sesame Street while in Moscow Natasha, quite obviously, needed children. She was looking forward to the beautiful soprano voices. Each choice of song by the children grew more and more depressing. More in the book here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1538161281/   

• The memes that go around today with “Russia for Russians” show classic Soviet images with the words like “sadness is for Russians”. This is reminiscent of Natasha’s time during the child auditions.

• A big THANK YOU to Natasha Lance Rogoff for joining us today. Her book, Muppets in Moscow is AMAZING and available now at this link https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1538161281/

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #427: The Essentials of Strategy

Rock climbers call certain boulders “problems” and the toughest part “the crux.” Richard Rumelt, in his new book The Crux: How Leaders Become Strategists, uses this term to describe a three-part strategic skill: 1) judgment about what is important and what’s secondary; 2) judgment about the difficulties of dealing with these issues; and 3) being able to focus. Join Ed and Ron as they discuss the essentials of strategy.

Since Greg is on PTO we present the AI edition of Greg's Notes with no edits.

Summary from Otter.ai:

• What did you want to call this? 0:05

• What does it take to be successful in the knowledge economy? 3:21

• The problem with strategy in business. 10:56

• What is the crux of agnarly problems? 16:43

• What’s the relationship of monkeys and flame throwers to strategy? 21:38

• The importance of having timely access to the right people in your business. 28:22

• Services are a means to an end, not an end. 37:44

• The mistaken belief that the purpose of a business is to make a profit. 43:58

• Ron’s book is not a strategy book. It’s a book of advice. 50:15

• The low-price, low-performance disruption theory. 52:49

• The 17 Sustainable Development Goals are aspirational, but they are not coherent. 57:40

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #426: Interview with David Alfery, MD, Author of Saving Grace

Ed and Ron were honored to have Dr. David D. Alfery on the show. He is the author of Saving Grace: What Patients Teach Their Doctors about Life, Death, and the Balance in Between. We loved this book, because it will resonate with any professional. Please listen if you are prepared for a very moving and profound discussion.

About Dr. David Alfery

Dr. David Alfery was raised in the North but moved to Louisiana to attend Tulane University where he obtained a BA in English. After graduating from LSU Medical School in New Orleans, he spent a year as a surgical intern at the University of Kentucky in Lexington before doing his residency in anesthesia at the University of California in San Diego. He stayed on there for an additional year of fellowship training in cardiothoracic anesthesia. In 1980 he moved to Nashville, Tennessee where he spent a thirty-six-year career in private practice. Dr. Alfery has served as a Chief of Anesthesia, President of the Tennessee State Society of Anesthesiologists, and was a founding member of Anesthesia Medical Group, one of the largest anesthesia practices in the United States. For twenty years he served as an Oral Examiner for the American Board of Anesthesiology, ending his tenure as a Senior Examiner. He holds an academic appointment at Vanderbilt University Medical Center as Adjunct Associate Professor of Anesthesiology. Dr. Alfery has authored 10 chapters in medical textbooks and 41 peer reviewed articles in anesthesia medical journals. He invented several anesthesia devices for which he has been awarded 17 US and International patents.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• “For 36 years, I had the greatest job in the world.” —Dr. Alfery, author of Saving Grace

• Saving Grace, the title of Dr. Alfery’s book, is a play on words with several meanings. One of them is about Grace, a 19 year old patient that Dr. Alfery was able to treat during the course of his career. More info at this link https://www.amazon.com/Saving-Grace-Patients-Doctors-Balance/dp/1666737941 

• Dr. Alfrey described the medical profession as, “99% boredom and 1% sheer terror”. I’m sure many of you out there can relate.

Segment two:

• We are super excited to welcome a new sponsor to the show today. Work. Now Locally. Welcome to the Wonolo team! Check them out there: https://www.wonolo.com/soul/ @Wonolo

• “Accept immediately that when a patient appears in acute distress they really are in as much pain as they appear.” —Dr. Alfery, author of Saving Grace

• Ed talked about the axiom of the presenting problem today and asked Dr. Alfery to compare that to medicine and how best doctors determine the cause of acute pain.

Segment three:

• As an intern, a mistake made by Dr. Alfery revealed a secret of medicine. Mistakes are commonly made. He has a great saying for this. “Forgive but remember.” 

• Dr. Alfery told a great joke on the show today, “What do you call the person who finishes very last in your medical school class?” Doctor.

• There is something significant about getting in touch with our inner core whether you are religious or not. Dr. Alfery stated that he doesn’t think anybody would ever object to “I’ve already prayed for you today.”

• “The medical missions [to the Caribbean and Romania] were probably the most rewarding part of my career.” —Dr. Alfery

Segment four:

• “I could be teamed with 4 or more total strangers coming to work for the first time in a complex operation and we still functioned well together.” Dr. Alfery talked about this quote from his book today and described HOW this is even possible.

• “If you have enough fame and enough money, you can buy the worst [health]care in America.” —Dr. Alfery

• A big THANK YOU to Dr. Alfery for joining us today. Folks, if you want an inside look into how Dr. Alfery has come to understand that having someone as a patient is an absolute privilege then you should read his book. More info here: https://www.amazon.com/Saving-Grace-Patients-Doctors-Balance/dp/1666737941 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #425: Second interview with Dr. Kimberlee Josephson

Ron and Ed were overjoyed to bring back to The Soul of Enterprise Dr. Kimberlee Josephson, associate professor of business at Lebanon Valley College, to talk about some of her more recent work on reputation vs regulation, why work won't love you back, and an update on her thoughts about the ESG movement.

About Dr. Kimberlee Josephson

Dr. Kimberlee Josephson is an Associate Professor of Business, Associate Dean for the Breen Center for Graduate Success at Lebanon Valley College in Annville, Pennsylvania, and Adjunct Research Fellow with the Consumer Choice Center. Her academic background is in international studies and strategic management and she teaches courses covering topics on global sustainability, international marketing, and workplace diversity. Prior to serving in academia, her professional career spanned from working in sales in Manhattan, as a producer for a web marketing firm, freelancing for on-air promotions at QVC, and as a research assistant for an international NGO. Her op-eds have appeared at University Business, Quartz at Work, and PA Capital Star. She holds a doctorate in Global Studies and Commerce from La Trobe University in Australia, a master’s degree in Political Science from Temple University in Philadelphia, another master’s degree in International Policy from La Trobe University, and a bachelor’s degree in Business Administration with a minor in Political Science from Bloomsburg University.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• Dr. Josephson has been with us before. Her first appearance was episode 360 back in October of 2021. Here is the link if you would like to listen https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/360 

• Dr. Josephson also joined us in a lively debate with Sam Staley on episode 385. More information at this link https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/385 

• I don’t think Dr. Josephson is alone when she writes, “Reputation Works Better Than Regulation”. That’s actually the title of an article she penned for AIER. Here is the link https://www.aier.org/article/reputation-works-better-than-regulation-why-demand-should-determine-prices/ 

• We discussed what the Senate Judiciary committee might be watching today on the show with Dr. Josephson https://twitter.com/JudiciaryDems/status/1621191756531236866

• Commercial free AND bonus episodes are available at Patreon.com/TSOE. At a certain membership level you get a shout out like MARK GANDY of CFO Bookshelf at CFOBookshelf.com. Thank you Mark!

Segment two:

• 1/3 Dr. Josephson has a few articles she has written about ESG to try and understand where it came from and what EXACTLY it even means. Let’s start with “Why ESG Ratings Are like Netflix’s Inventing Anna” at this link https://www.aier.org/article/why-esg-ratings-are-like-netflixs-inventing-anna/

• 2/3 After the first article, Dr. Josephson also wrote “The Rise of ESG, Replacing Profits with Paternalism, and Strategy with Standards” at this link https://www.aier.org/article/the-rise-of-esg-replacing-profits-with-paternalism-and-strategy-with-standards/

• 3/3 Coming soon, Dr. Josephson is very close to publishing more articles on the topic of ESG so please watch her author page at AIER for more information https://www.aier.org/people/kimberlee-josephson/ 

• Great example from Dr. Josephson today: Are Legos a monopoly? Sure they are the only provider in the market (others exist but are not compatible) but the market seems happy with the single choice.

Segment three:

• Professor Aswath Damodaran on ESG: “This is a concept that was born in sanctimony, nurtured with hypocrisy, and sold with sophistry all the way.” Our guest, Dr. Josephson, on the show today, “I AGREE.” Show notes and audio will be available by Monday at https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/425 

• Here is Professor Damodaran’s Musings On Markets website: https://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/ 

• In summary during segment three today, Dr. Josephson made a great point: If you want to work at a non-profit or for an NGO, more power to you. But don’t demonize those who choose the private sector and offer a service that the market needs. 

• Is Dr. Josephson optimistic that we will be able to push back on ESG or will it hang over the economy for years to come. Her concern is institutionalizing the concepts before we have a change to think rationally about the outcome.

Segment four:

• “Work Won’t Love You Back, And That Is How It Should Be” — Are we being exploited by our employers? No. As Dr. Josephson says, “More often than not, a job is a means for making a living or furthering a skillset, rather than finding one’s passion or fulfilling a dream.” https://www.aier.org/article/work-wont-love-you-back-and-that-is-how-it-should-be/

• “At least you have that option for a crappy job with crappy wages and you work at it until you find something better.” —Dr. Josephson

• A big THANK YOU to Dr. Kimberlee Josephson for joining us today. We will publish links to her recent work in our show notes by Monday at this link https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/425 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #424: Interview with Dr. Jay Baruch, The Tornado of Life

Ed and Ron were honored to host Dr. Jay Baruch, author of Tornado of Life: A Doctor’s Journey through Constraints and Creativity in the ER. When a patient comes into the hospital with cardiac arrest or a compound fracture, doctors know what to do. The problem is evident, and the solution is practically algorithmic. Dr. Baruch contends that the biggest challenge and the biggest part of an ER doctor’s work is often caring for people who come in with not just problems with their body, but also social issues, emotional issues, and substance use issues—and oftentimes all of them at once. In Tornado of Life, we come to see that the toughest part of an emergency physician’s work isn’t the high-wattage drama, the mayhem and the blood, that is portrayed on television, but rather the actual getting to the heart of the patient’s story—and figuring out how to address it. Because they’re real, these stories often end without closure or solutions. Sometimes underlying causes aren’t found. Sometimes serious problems are missed. Some patients leave against doctor’s orders. Some are simply discharged into the night. A profoundly human book, Tornado of Life is poised to change the way we view doctors, illness, and the “emotional and moral contact sport” that is emergency medicine. Join us for what was a profoundly human discussion.

About Dr. Jay Baruch

Jay Baruch, a practicing emergency room physician, is Professor of Emergency Medicine at Brown University’s Alpert Medical School and the author of two award-winning short fiction collections, What's Left Out and Fourteen Stories: Doctors, Patients, and Other Strangers. He lives in Providence, Rhode Island. His recent book, and the topic of today’s show, Tornado of Life: A Doctor’s Journey through Constraints and Creativity in the ER. It is poised to change the way we view doctors, illness, and the “emotional and moral contact sport” that is emergency medicine.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• When did Jay know he wanted to be a doctor? He went to college to be a writer and then took a course that involved hospital visits. The privilege of taking to patients and hearing their stories changed the course of his career.

• Specifically, why the emergency room for Dr. Jay? Being in an ER, Dr. Jay was both terrified and invigorated at the same time. “It felt like home” is the way he described it today on the show. 

• We are going to speak mostly about Dr. Jay’s book today. It is called “Tornado of Life: A Doctor’s Journey through Constraints and Creativity in the ER” and there is more info at this link https://www.jaybaruch.com/ 

• In chapter 3, Dr. Jay tells the story of Cheryl and reveals the impetus behind the title of his new book, Tornado of Life. Here is the Amazon link https://www.amazon.com/Tornado-Life-Doctors-Constraints-Creativity/dp/0262046970 

Segment two:

• “More data doesn’t mean more certainty if it’s in the service of the wrong questions.” —Jay Baruch from his book Tornado of Life. More at this link https://www.jaybaruch.com/ 

• Regarding the curiosity of children, “Sometimes we should just give kids answers and ask them to name five questions that this could be the answer to.” —a brilliant quote from Dr. Jay Baruch

• “A convincing story is oftentimes believed on the virtue of it being a good story. Sometimes we do not ask ‘is this true?’ We don’t examine the power of stories the same way we examine the power of data.” —Dr. Jay Baruch

• “The crisis of the ER department crowding...forces physicians like me to allocate compassion.” —Dr. Jay Baruch

Segment three:

• Regarding the M&M (an acronym specific to the medical space): “The root of the problem isn’t a lack of knowledge but smart physicians who just go the story wrong.” Storytelling is the most common theme in Dr. Jay’s book. More here: https://www.jaybaruch.com/ 

• “Think about the stories that you enjoy. You bring something to it. Your own experiences. The most enduring stories are the ones that leave a place for the reader or viewer to bring themselves into it.” —Dr. Jay Baruch

• “It takes some work to embrace complexity.” —Dr. Jay Baruch. Read that again. Short and couldn’t be more true

• Dr. Jay Baruch describes “the pause” in a trauma center as a moment in our day that is actually a profound human experience. Listen to his words as he describes the pause in segment three of our show today. Subscribe here https://link.chtbl.com/TSOE 

Segment four:

• “We never went back to normal. There is no normal.” —Dr. Jay Baruch regarding the emergency room

• Dr. Jay thinks about medical progress on the show today and wonders, “Are we pulling everyone forward or are we creating a widening disparity gap?”

• A big THANK YOU to Dr. Jay Baruch for joining us today. This was an amazing show about his book, Tornado of Life. It is available at this link https://www.jaybaruch.com/  

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.