Episode #437: Fourth interview with Doug Sleeter

Doug Sleeter was a well-known entrepreneur and thought leader in the accounting industry. He was the founder and former CEO of The Sleeter Group, a company that provided training, consulting, and research services to accounting professionals.

“Sadly, Doug Sleeter passed away in November 2019.” - ChatGPT 3.5, March 2023

Yup, ChatGPT says Doug Is Dead. The good news, he is very much alive and has a bone to pick with ChatGPT. This one is personal.

A Bit More About Doug Sleeter…

Doug Sleeter is the founder and former CEO of The Sleeter Group, an international network of accounting software consultants, and the former producer of SleeterCon, an annual conference for accounting professionals. As a CPA firm veteran and former Apple Computer Evangelist, he melded his two great passions accounting and technology to guide developers in the innovation of new products and to educate and lead accounting professionals who serve small businesses. He is currently focusing on digital currencies and blockchain technology. He was inducted into The CPA Practice Advisor Hall of Fame in the accounting profession, and named to Accounting Todays Top 100 Most Influential People in Accounting, 20082015. Doug attended the University of California Santa Cruz and Santa Clara University, holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Computer Information Systems, and lives in Pleasanton, CA.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• The AICPA was playing around with this new “AI thing” when they asked it, “Who is Doug Sleeter?” and discovered that ChatGPT was hallucinating (and had declared him dead).

• The term, hallucination, is commonly used to describe incorrect information supplied by an AI tool such as ChatGPT.

• “Hasn’t the internet always thrown a bunch of crap at us, including humans?” —Ron Baker on the hallucinations of ChatGPT

• If you have a little bit of data wrong, that’s not a problem. In aggregate, lots of small issues become a bigger one. Then AI enters the stage and we are struggling to correct its hallucinations.

• “You have to have some basic human discernment in order to create a prompt for [ChatGPT].” —Ed Kless

Segment two:

• “We talked in the last segment about big bad data. These hallucinations from ChatGPT are creating more data that someone is going to record on a ledger somewhere. How can this be good?” —Doug Sleeter

• It can pass the bar but ChatGPT has a problem with accounting tests. “ChatGPT is still no match for humans when it comes to accounting” https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/986867 

• The creation of an AI generated deepfake is not the problem but what about the reaction to it. Just as Doug had a reaction to being proclaimed deceased, our government is having a reaction to AI in general as well.

• “AI apocalypticism is thinly veiled political fund-raising pitch” https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/ai-apocalypticism-is-a-thinly-veiled-fund-raising-pitch/ 

Segment three:

• The paper clip problem. What is it and why would AI be hell bent on destroying us to make more paperclips? https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/ai-and-paperclip-problem 

• Do you know about Isaac Asimov’s 3 laws of robotics? Written in 1941 in his short story runaround https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaround_(story)#:~:text=The%20plot%20revolves%20around%20the,conflict%20with%20the%20First%20Law.  

• We swerved into the philosophy lane today on the show: Human judgement, morality, and creativity were all significant factors when Sully landed his plane in the Hudson River. How would an AI system have acted?

• On AI: “The contextual piece is critical and it is what makes us human.” —Doug Sleeter

Segment four:

• This is GENIUS. Doug Sleeter has the ultimate test for AI. It’s better than the Turing test for sure. “Would my dog befriend an AI and consider it to be its master?”

• “We do overestimate the impact of technology in the short term and overestimate it in the long term,” as summarized by Ron on today’s show.

• A big THANK YOU to Doug Sleeter for joining us today. To all who were concerned about ChatGPT’s designation of him as deceased, do not fret. He is very much alive and ready to set the ChatGPT record straight.

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #436: Second interview with Joe Pine

We first spoke with Joe Pine way back in March of 2015 primarily about his books, The Experience Economy and Infinite Possibility. Our key takeaway from Joe's work is his Economic Value Progression graph which asserts that transformations are the highest level (at least in this world). This insight has become even more important as organizations move to subscription based models. We are looking forward to getting Joe's take and ask him about his recent piece in the Harvard Business Review - The "New You" Business.

A Bit More About Joe Pine…

Co-author of The Experience Economy, Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. In 2020 Mr. Pine and his partner James H. Gilmore re-released in hardcover The Experience Economy: Competing for Customer Time, Attention, and Money featuring an all-new Preview to their best-selling 1999 book The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre & Every Business a Stage. The book demonstrates how goods and services are no longer enough; what companies must offer today are experiences – memorable events that engage each customer in an inherently personal way. It further shows that in today’s Experience Economy companies now compete against the world for the time, attention, and money of individual customers. The Experience Economy has been published in fifteen languages and was named one of the 100 best business books of all time by 800ceoread (now Porchlight). Mr. Pine also co-wrote Infinite Possibility: Creating Customer Value on the Digital Frontier with Kim Korn, Authenticity: What Consumers Really Want with Mr. Gilmore in 2007, and in 1993 published his first book, the award-winning Mass Customization: The New Frontier in Business Competition. Each book details Mr. Pine’s breakthrough thinking as he has accurately charted many structural shifts — from individualizing goods to today’s focus on customer experiences and many other changes in the economy and consumer sensibility.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• It is said that economic eras have always been named based on the output. That would explain why we are big fans of Joe Pine’s book, The Experience Economy https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975/ 

• Are we moving into the transformation economy? According to Joe, yes. We are transforming through the experiences we have.

• “What transformations do is they change us from the inside out.” —Joe Pine

• If you weren’t paying attention, it’s understandable to have missed the difference between commodification, commoditization, and customization. I can’t do Joe’s words justice in a tweet so listen to him go through it in segment one of our show today

• “Any company that is in the business of making you healthy, wealthy and wise is in the transformation business.” —Joe Pine

Segment two:

• The New Your Business is an article co-written by Joe Pine in Harvard Business Review. If you have not read it yet, please do yourself a big favor and click/tap this link https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

• Rarely is their one life transforming experience. More often it is a progression…a series of successes.

• The Five Whys method is simple: when a problem occurs, you drill down to its root cause by asking "Why?" five times. Then, when a counter-measure becomes apparent, you follow it through to prevent the issue from recurring.

Segment three:

• Charging for the outcome and NOT the activities is a part of what it means to be in the transformation business.

• The subscription pricing model gets you to the experience level (which is close to transformation). “You are what you charge for.” —Joe Pine

• “Once you start charging for OUTCOMES it changes how you do things.” —Joe Pine

• What is the difference between insurance, assurance, and ensurance? Joe talked through this during segment three of the show today.

Segment four:

• There are 3 phases of transformation as defined in Joe’s book: the up front diagnosis, the design of a set of experiences, and the follow through

• Many of the folks that Ron and Ed work with are used to stacking services. “Designing the offering” is a critical section for you towards the end of Joe’s HBR article. More here: https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

• “Transformation business models will be much harder to imitate than those that offer only goods, services, or experiences. And they promise to generate a handsome reward.” https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business  

• A big THANK YOU to Joe Pine for joining us today. Please check out his books, The Experience Economy and Infinite Possibility as well as his HBR article, The “New You” Business https://hbr.org/2022/01/the-new-you-business 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #435: Tribute to Dr. Reginald Lee, R.I.P.

Dr. Reginald Lee is survived by his wife and 4 children. One of his children suffers from a rare disease. If Dr. Reginald Lee touched your life, please consider contributing at this GoFundMe link.

It is with heavy hearts that Ed and Ron share the news of Dr. Reginald Lee's passing on March 8, 2023. He was a dear friend, a mentor, a teacher, and a maverick who was fearless in challenging the conventional wisdom of cost accounting. We were privileged to know him and be able to spend time with him. We will also keep his teaching and his legacy alive. Join us to celebrate the life and work of this dear friend, who leaves behind the imperishable crown of a good name. Read more tributes to Reginald at: https://www.hodappfuneralhome.com/obituaries/reginald-lee

A Bit More About Dr. Reginald Lee…

Reginald is survived by his beloved wife Tamara, children Sunny (Sam Rugg), Sophia, Rey, Isabella, Ashton and his grandson, Shepard. He also leaves behind his dear nephews Marcus and Michael Lee and his cherished siblings Marc Lee (Adriana), and Wynnette Lee. He was the son of the late Rudolph and Winifred Lee. Reginald held close the values they instilled in him and his mother remained a beautiful light in his life. Reginald grew up in Dayton, Ohio. He graduated from the University of Dayton with a PhD in mechanical engineering. As an engineer with a passion for business and math, Reginald was a pioneer in debunking the validity of accounting information for managerial purposes. As a replacement, he developed Business Domain Management, a mathematically sound operations and cash business framework. His work has proven valuable in helping leaders see, understand, and manage their operational and cash performance. He was a corporate advisor and founded Business Dynamics & Research using cash-based business models he created. In addition to his ongoing work at BDR, he also taught at Xavier University's Williams College of Business. Previously, he had worked for a number of major global brands including EY, GM, IBM, Oracle and Clark Schaefer. Reginald was also a prolific writer, authoring five books and publishing more than 30 articles in magazines such as APICS, Cincinnati Business Courier, Industrial Management, and Journal of Cost Management.

Use these show notes to follow along with the audio:

Segment one:

• Ron first met Dr. Reginald Lee online during a FIERCE debate on cost accounting. Reginald left several comments on LinkedIn with arguments that Ron had never seen before and he knew he needed to have a deeper conversation. 

• During their first in-person meeting, Ron and Ed learning something valuable from Dr. Reginald Lee. “Cost is an opinion.”

• Because Dr. Reginald Lee wasn’t an accountant, one of the refutations Ron/Ed often heard was “he’s not an accountant” (he’s an engineer). But in his campaign against cost accounting, what many forget is that cost accounting was developed by engineers.

Segment two:

• Ed has NO IDEA how Dr. Reginald Lee ended up as a Yankees fan (how does anyone end up as a Yankees fan?) but it was a fun rivalry given what everyone should know about Ed Kless. Ed is most definitely a Mets fan.

• Dr. Reginald Lee worked at Boeing and General Motors. He had a love of sports and fast cars. He was outgoing and, with an ability to communicate to his college class with an engineering background, was unique in his own right.

• The funeral home has a page on Dr. Reginald Lee along with tributes on the page from friends and family. https://www.hodappfuneralhome.com/obituaries/reginald-lee 

• In tribute to Dr. Reginald Lee, “Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not.” —Robert F. Kennedy https://www.hodappfuneralhome.com/obituaries/reginald-lee 

Segment three:

• Ed had the honor of writing the forward to Dr. Reginald Lee’s most recent book, Project Profitability. https://www.amazon.com/Project-Profitability-Ensuring-Improvement-Projects/dp/1637421699  

• Ron had the honor of writing the forward to Dr. Reginald Lee’s book, Strategic Cost Transformation. https://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Cost-Transformation-Business-Management/dp/1631578790/ 

• “A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure.” Segal's Law summarizes the confusion behind cost accounting and why Dr. Reginald Lee’s work was so important.

Segment four:

• Dr. Reginald Lee kept a list of all of his appearances on The Soul of Enterprise PLUS other appearances. More here: https://www.bdrco.org/interviews 

• “Cost Accounting, R.I.P.” — An article by Ron Baker that mentions the work of Dr. Reginald Lee. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140123194426-38251380-cost-accounting-r-i-p/ 

• “The Death of Cost Accounting” A book review by Ron Baker in which he recounts meeting Dr. Reginald Lee and getting to know his work. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/death-cost-accounting-book-review-ron-baker/ 

• “Why Timesheets Focus Firm Leaders on the Wrong Things” — An article in which Ron Baker recounts the work of Dr. Reginald Lee and talks about why cost accounting is a bad idea. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-timesheets-focus-firm-leaders-wrong-things-ron-baker/ 

• Dr. Reginald Lee is survived by his wife and 4 children. One of the children suffers from a rare disease. There is more information at this GoFundMe link: https://www.gofundme.com/f/tamara-and-family 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #434: Second interview with Timothy Chou

Back in October of 2016, Ron and Ed interviewed Professor Timothy Chou of Stanford about his books Cloud: Seven clear business models and Precision: Principles, Practices and Solutions for the Internet of Things. This time around we were pleased to get an update on his work and talk a bit more about AI and the recent explosion of interest around ChatGPT.

A Bit More About Timothy Chou…

Timothy Chou has been a leader in bringing enterprises to the cloud. In 2000 he returned to Oracle to become the first President of the company’s cloud computing business. While at Oracle he published the landmark book The End of Software, which predicted the rise of SaaS applications. He has been an advisor to many Silicon Valley startups and today serves as the Chairman of Alchemist Accelerator, focused on early stage enterprise software companies. He also serves on the public company board of Teradata.

Timothy has a parallel career in academics. He taught introductory computer architecture for 15 years at Stanford University. In 2006 he launched the first class on cloud computing, CS309A. The class has had over one hundred public company CEOs as guest lecturers.

He has come out of retirement to work on his last great project - the Pediatric Moonshot. The moon shot mission is to transform children's healthcare globally by creating real-time, privacy-preserving applications based on the data from 1,000,000 healthcare machines in all 500 children’s hospitals in the world. In the process he has founded Bevelcloud to build and deploy a decentralized, in-the-building edge cloud service, which is architected for AI applications in medicine.

Show outline:

• Casa Bonita is taking reservations for events starting in July.

• My books are temporarily gone because I had new carpeting put in.

• What’s next for AI?

• What does the future look like for the world of work?

• The story of how he got started with the Pediatric Moonshot.

• There are only 3000 pediatric cardiologists in the whole country, which is amazingly few.

• The fine art of coexisting securely and managed way is one of the innovations we’ve had to make.

• Sponsor: CFO Bookshelf

• The importance of the ImageNet contest and how it has changed the world.

• Doctors use a website called GlassHospital.com to make difficult diagnoses that no other doctor can figure out.

• What’s the problem with the old centralized mechanism?

• What are you going to do with this?

• The cost side of accounting is fascinating. The medical establishment is not.

• What’s so exciting about this tech?

• How to get the word out about this show?

• Gorbachev’s speech at Moscow State University

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.