September 2020

Episode #310: Live! Well, sorta, from Ignite by CPB Canada

CPB Canada

We couldn’t be happier with the questions that came in from attendees of Ignite 2020 by CPB Canada. It was all about the subscription business model!

About CPB Canada:
Certified Professional Bookkeepers of Canada is a member-based association, a national certifying body and the leading professional and career development organization for bookkeepers in Canada.

So where are the show notes?
For this week’s show, we would like to extend a gracious thank you to CPB Canada for hosting Ron and Ed during their virtual event. We primarily took questions from the audience and, as you would guess, they were mostly about the subscription business model. Show notes could not do these questions justice so you can listen to the episode for the good stuff!


Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

New this week!

Bonus episode 309.2 - Subscription Update - Apple Microsoft and More. After Tuesday's Wonkfest, we needed to take a break from politics and talk subscription.

Bonus episode 310 - Some free riding including words about words. Featuring discussion about these articles:

Episode #309 - Interview with John Garrett

john garrett - headshot.jpg

Ron and Ed welcome professional comedian and CPA, John Garrett to the show to talk about John's new book based on his podcast of the same name - What's Your And? We were also joined by college football legend, Lou Holtz. At least, that’s what the caller told us in segment three. You really should listen for the details.

Before the show notes, a bit more about John:
John Garrett is a catalyst for corporate culture change. He’s on a mission to help teams break down barriers, foster unity and strengthen bonds. No matter where you are in your career, it’s important to differentiate yourself to achieve your goals. The future professional doesn’t define expertise simply in college degrees and certifications. They have passions outside of work that enhance their ability to develop stronger levels of trust with colleagues and clients. Through hilarious stories and extensive research, John encourages everyone to share their passions because they are the very heart of your organization’s culture.

Ron’s Questions: Segment One

  • I'm really excited to bring in John Garrett. He's a two time Emmy nominee, and is a catalyst for corporate culture change. He's on a mission to help teams break down barriers foster unity and strengthen bonds. The future professional doesn't define expertise simply in college degrees and certifications. They have passions outside of work that enhance their ability to develop stronger levels of trust with their colleagues and clients. John encourages everyone to share their passions because they are at the very heart of your organization's culture. John Garrett, welcome to The Soul of Enterprise.

  • I first heard you on a Sirius [comedy channel], didn't know who you were, but when they introduced you as a CPA, Notre Dame grad, it got my attention. You did this whole riff, I think it was on Willie Nelson. How he was complaining about the war or defense spending. And you said, well, what's the point? You don't even pay taxes anyway.

  • I just remember thinking, wow, this is crazy. You know, a CPA, former PwC. So tell us the john Garrett life story.

  • That's awesome. What I have to ask you, because I think you asked me this when I was on your show, when did you know you wanted to be a CPA? When did that happen for you?

  • Well, this book [What’s Your And?: Unlock the Person Within the Professional] has been a while in coming. We spoke about it a while ago. I remember you were said you were working on it and I said, Oh, I can't wait, when you get it done, we'll have you on the show. But why did you write it and why now? Why is this message so critical now?

  • It is a great message. And before we get into that, how did you get Lou Holtz to write your Foreword?

  • Wow, that's awesome. When I saw that, that gets your attention.

  • Well we've only got a couple minutes John, maybe less, but just real fast—and I'm sure Ed will pick up on this—but you say ignoring your And makes you less successful and less professional and makes your firm less successful. What do you mean by that?

  • You know, that is a profound idea, and I love the way you expanded on it in your book. So I'm sure we'll talk more about that.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Two

  • Folks, the book is What's Your And?, the author is John Garrett and he is here on The Soul of Enterprise this week. And John, before we dive into the meat of the book, I wanted to ask you, what was the process for you of writing? How did you go about writing this book?

  • You know, you incorporate other people's stories and the way I took it is it wasn't necessarily verbatim transcripts of your podcast interviews with them, but certainly those stories were then incorporated and scattered throughout the book. Is that correct?

  • Yeah, and it is really interesting the way the stories bounce back between your voice and then to the person that you're talking about, and you're giving great examples of what you just cited. One of the parts that really spoke to me was this, as you write, “Many professionals feel that keeping their passions to themselves is the safest move and the best as far as their career development. They feel that talking about them will make them vulnerable, and others will perceive them as not being very good at their job. These professionals are wrong, dead wrong. If you want to be staffed on a cool project the manager needs to know who you are. Expound on that a little bit. That really spoke to me.

  • Do you think this, at least where I am at Sage, that this is open and encouraged. But are you still finding that a lot of organizations do not encourage people to talk about their And?

  • They want to hear it and I think that's a good point. And you do make that at another point in the book.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Three

  • Welcome back everybody. We're here with John Garrett, the author of the newly released What's Your And? John, one of the points you make that I just thought was phenomenal was that you say employers look for extracurricular activities, but then they don't give the people they hire the time to continue with those. And then you pointed out that resume writers and coaches and people on LinkedIn are really suggesting you remove these extracurricular activities. Really? That does seem incandescently stupid.

  • As you know, at least in the CPA profession and other professions as well, we have this graying, that a lot of people are retiring. Something like two-thirds of the AICPA membership is eligible for retirement in the next seven or ten years. It's an astonishing number. And you actually blame no activities outside of work for the lack of succession planning in firms. And I thought that was a really interesting link.

 Ed Kless Interrupting… “Hey listen we have got Lou Holtz on the line.”

Greg Kyte… “Hey of course this isn't Lou Holtz. This is Greg Kyte from Utah. Long time caller, first time listener.”

Ron Baker… “Good comedians don't grow on trees. They swing from them.”

[The remaining portion of this segment has been edited out of the show notes. It was hilarious and you really should listen.]

  •  John, this is another thing that I really enjoyed about the book. You give many different ways for firms to disseminate their people's Ands. Toastmaster lunches. You've got your marketing ideas, newsletters. But explain the bucket list idea.

  • No, that was a phenomenal idea. It's kind of like you also talked about newsletters, and I know some firms have put movie reviews into their newsletters or recipes. And that's what gets read not the technical crap.

  • Well, John, this is great. Unfortunately, we're out of time because of Greg.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Four

  • John Garrett is our special guest today on The Soul of Enterprise. His book is What's Your and both Ron and I have had the privilege of being on that podcast. So we will post up notes where you can go listen to the episodes where we were on. I'm a recidivist there, I was on twice, I get to one-up Ron on that one.

  • I wanted to ask you one of the things that you point out, and this is in your section about being not afraid—don’t be afraid to be an original. And you say, “The world is starving for authenticity and uniqueness.” And authenticity is a word that really resonates with me. In fact, it's a word that I've talked a lot about in my professional career. I have a whole section in my consulting course on the notion of authenticity. And I just wanted to hear what your thoughts are on authenticity. When I hear it, what it means to me is not being afraid to say what you see and say what you feel, even more importantly. You can phrase it as “I think” rather than “I feel” because I think that's a better phrase, but we can't be afraid not to, and I have found that authenticity is actually, in my opinion, the most important thing that anyone in a consulting role can be.

  • Yeah, I think that was a super insight. The notion of it's easier to define what is unprofessional, and we can take anything is professional up to the point of well, no, that's gone beyond the pale right. Because David Maister in his books long ago, 30 plus years ago, talks about that's the worst thing that you can say to a professional, is that they're behaving unprofessionally. That really sticks in their craw.

  • But you do admit throughout the book that that line has changed over time. And we're constantly experimenting with it and playing with it. So talk a little bit about that.

  • So talk a little bit about that. Any impact that you've seen on the concept that you put forward in the book because of COVID. Have you seen any impact with regard to that?

  • Our North American Managing Director, Nancy Harris, who I know you know, because you met with her when we were doing the Sage sessions. Whenever we have a meeting now—and this just happened yesterday—it’s almost a riot if she does not bring her dog, Harley, onto the broadcast.

  • So we've only got about a minute or two left John. What's next for you? Is there another book on the horizon?

  • I'll give you a piece of unsolicited advice, and I think Ron will back me up on this. Resist the temptation to provide a checklist.

  • Outstanding. Well, john, thanks so much for being a guest on the show today. Really appreciate it.

[EDITOR’S NOTE: Both Ron and Ed have been a guest on John Garrett’s podcast. Here is a link to Ron’s appearance. Here is a link to the first and second appearances for Ed.]


Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 109 - More with John Garrett. We were really fortunate to have John Garrett stick around for the bonus episode so we have another hour with him just for our Patreon members!

Episode #308: Interview with Margaret Wheatley

margaret wheatley.jpg

Ron and Ed were honored to interview Margaret Wheatley

A Bit More About Margaret:
Margaret Wheatley has worked globally with many different roles a speaker, teacher, community worker, consultant, advisor, and formal leader. From these deep and varied experiences, she has developed the unshakable conviction that leaders must learn how to evoke people's inherent generosity, creativity and need for community. As the world tears us apart, sane leadership, on behalf of the human spirit is the only way forward. She's the author of nine books, including the classic Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World, Third Edition (2006). Her newest book, in 2017, is Who Do We Choose To Be?: Facing Reality, Claiming Leadership, Restoring Sanity?

Ed’s Questions: Segment One

  • First question to you Margaret, how are you holding up personally with regard to the whole COVID situation that we're going through.

  • Yes, just this morning I was talking with my mentor, Howard Hanson. And he told me a story about his mother-in-law who is turning 100 next week. And what a great story and I wished him well, and her husband had passed 25 years ago, and he was saying that she could have gone down the path of being depressed about it. Instead, she embraced her new community. She became active in her bridge club and the place where she lived, and I was thinking, I wonder what someone going through that same situation today as his mother-in-law did, would she be able to do that with everything that's happened to us regarding COVID? So what's been your thinking about the impact of COVID, from an ability to build a strong community standpoint?

  • So it is the people stepping up at this time willing to put themselves on the line with regard to being willing to get on Skype calls or Zoom calls as opposed to resisting that technology?

  • One quote I heard was, what are we going to do when we go back to live meetings and can't mute all?

  • Which leads me into the next question that I wanted to ask you. And I mentioned before we started recording that I've been a reader of your books for a couple of decades now. I have physical copies of some of your books as opposed to just Kindle versions. And it was a great treat to go back and re-read some of the works that I had encountered a dozen years ago or more. And one of them was your book A Simpler Way. And the opening in that book reminded me a little bit of Yuval Levin’s new book, which is called A Time to Build, where he's talking about the need to refirm up our institutions, but in a more positive way, because he says they've gone from being formative of the people in them to just being platforms that other people use, and it even allows others who cracked the code to come in. And when you think about what's happened with our political parties, you know, both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders to a certain extent were outside of the institutions that they rose up in because they just use them as platforms, rather than being shaped by them, or helping to shape them. Thoughts on that?

Ron’s Questions: Segment Two

  • Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Margaret Wheatley, the author of, among other books, Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World. It's out in its third edition as of 2006. Meg that was the first book of yours I read in 1996 or 1997. Because I was introduced to it in an article from an author who I really admired, he was writing about change. And he quoted you and I thought what he quoted was deeply profound. So I ran out and got your book, and it is profound. And I can imagine because you had a business audience somewhat in mind, I can just imagine some people going, “Well, what am I supposed to do Monday morning?” We're so used to checklists and just led by the nose. Did you ever get that type of feedback?

  • I love how you weave in that there's three different areas of science that you are intrigued by: quantum physics, self-organizing systems, and chaos theory. You do such a great job of explaining those, especially to a layman like me. And every one of those that you discuss is profound. But you quote, when it comes to systems thinking, the ancient Sufi teaching that captures the shift and focus of this idea that “you think because you understand one, you must understand two, because one and one makes two, but you must also understand ‘and.’”

  • Do you think this COVID crisis is—and this you explained really well from chaos theory—that you have to go through a period of chaos to emerge in a new way. Do you think this crisis could be that point of chaos?

  • Now, in the book you talked about what biology has taught you, and it taught you that you can have faith in the system. If a system is suffering, this indicates that lacks sufficient access to itself. It could be lacking information or it might have lost clarity about who it is, trouble with relationships. Can you explain that? Because I just think that is so profound, it lacks sufficient access to itself?

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

  • Back with Margaret Wheatley on The Soul of Enterprise and Margaret during our break one of the things that you mentioned to us is that you really wanted to get an opportunity to address our audience and be present to give them a talk about being leaders as leaders, and I thought that was a really interesting turn of phrase. What do you mean by that, enlighten us?

  • Riffing off of Milton Friedman, he said something in an economic context but when you were talking it reminded me of this quote, he said, “Our job is to keep these ideas around, so that when the impossible becomes the inevitable, the ideas are still around.”

  • So, it's funny, even before we started recording today, we were talking about your books and I said I had them and they were always beautifully done with photo essays, and poetry. Talk a little bit, we have a few minutes before our break, and now I see why you haven't released a new book but instead have posted online Warriors for the Human Spirit, a song line, a guided journey by voice and sound. So talk a little bit about that offering that you've made with Jerry Granelli, is that correct?

  • The last thing I wanted to talk with you a little bit about before Ron takes us home to the top of the hour is, and I've signed up for this next week, you're starting a thing called leadership for a changing world, a program that's being offered. Tell us a little about what you're going to be talking about.

  • Margaret, I am going to say goodbye to you now because Ron is going take you the last 15 minutes. But I want to thank you so much for being a guest. This has been a real thrill to meet one of my heroes from a business author standpoint. So thanks so much for being on the show.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

  • Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Margaret Wheatley, author of Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World. Meg I have to tell you; you had a section in the book, I forget the chapter, but you talked about Frederick Taylor and Frank Gilbreth. And you said, “I still find this early literature frightening to read.” You'll be happy to know that our very first show on this program was bashing Frederick Taylor (Episode #1). [Meg: Yeah, but he's alive and well]. He is. And that was my question, we call it the cult of efficiency but why? Why is his allure so powerful

  • We've created organizations that are less creative and adaptable then the people inside of them. Gary Hamel, his new book, Humanocracy is just a screed against bureaucracy, and how we need to kill it. And he gives lots of examples of companies that have. Do you see us overcoming bureaucracy?

  • We've done a few shows on organizational change management and you quote in your book studies that show 75% of these initiatives fail, or at least don't live up to the people's expectations.

  • You wrote, and I just thought this was lovely. You said, “I was well trained to create things, plans, events, measures, programs. I invested more than half my life and trying to make the world conform to what I thought was best for it. It's not easy to give up the role of master creator and move into the dance of life.”

  • Margaret, it has been an honor to chat with you. I just I love the book. Highly recommend that everybody read Leadership and the New Science: Discovering Order in a Chaotic World, and make sure you get the third edition. It's absolutely profound. You'll think your way through this book. It'll give you new words to use, new models to think about, and new ways to see the world. It's had a profound impact on me, Meg, thank you so much for being on The Soul of Enterprise.


Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 109 - COVID Update, Mulan, and Subscrptions. Here are a few stories we discussed during this episode:

Episode #307: Interview with Ronald Bailey

ronald bailey.jpeg

Ron and Ed are fired up to welcome Reason Magazine science editor, Ronald Bailey to the show.

A Bit More About Ronald:
Ronald Bailey is the science correspondent for Reason, where he writes a weekly science and technology column. From 1987 to 1990, Bailey was a staff writer for Forbes magazine, covering economic, scientific and business topics. His articles and reviews have appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Commentary, The Public Interest, Smithsonian, TechCentralStation, National Review, Reader’s Digest and many other publications. In 1993, he was the Warren T. Brookes Fellow in Environmental Journalism at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. In 2006, Bailey was shortlisted by the editors of Nature Biotechnology as one of the personalities who have made the “most significant contributions” to biotechnology in the last 10 years. Prior to joining Reason in 1997, Bailey produced several weekly national public television series including Think Tank and TechnoPolitics, as well as several documentaries for PBS television and ABC News. He’s author, along with Marian Tupy [See Episode #304 for our interview with Marian], of the newly released book: Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting.

Ron’s Questions: Segment One

  • Ron, welcome to The Soul of Enterprise. I've been reading you for a long time. I first read one of your first books in 1993, Eco-Scam: The False Prophets of Ecological Apocalypse. You have a very impressive career, and have changed your mind, and evolved your thinking, so we'll talk about that for sure. But I have to ask you, did you know Warren Brookes? [Author of The Economy in Mind].

  • Brookes had a powerful impact on me with his book The Economy in Mind. One of the reasons we use the Reagan quote, which is the Moscow speech he delivered written by Joshua Gilder, George Gilder’s nephew, is that he quotes in there the economy in mind. When I saw that you were the Warren Brookes fellow so I had to ask you. Ron, how have you been holding up, personally, with all this COVID and all this other craziness going on, we're in the middle of an election?

  • And I want to ask you about that. But first, how would you grade the government's response to this pandemic, both at the state and federal levels

  • Was that just the FDA, just bumbling the whole thing, or just trying to keep control?

  • I am going to make a confession to you Ron. I haven’t received the book yet. As a result, I am going to stick with COVID and climate change with you. I've been reading a lot of your posts and articles and you wrote one a few days ago about a vaccine, and how Americans are worried that the approval process is being driven more by politics than science. And that's on a bipartisan basis, both sides, but yet 62% said they would they would take the vaccine prior to the election. [Source: “Poll: Americans Worry COVID-19 Vaccine Approval Is Politicized,” Reason, September 1, 2020]. Would you take the vaccine?

  • Your co-author, Marian Tupy, we had him on and he made that point about how we're just accelerating vaccines, which is fantastic. And you actually anticipated my next question. I was going to ask you about all these regulations that have been removed or relaxed during this crisis. Do you think it'll stay that way? Or will those come back?

  • I hope you're right on that. And you know, I re-listened to a broadcast you did with Jonah Goldberg, because we love The Remnant podcast. And you were on May 7, and you guys were talking about the lock downs. Do you think the cost of the lock downs exceeded the benefits from an economic perspective?

Ed’s Questions: Segment Two

  • And the book is Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting, by Ronald Bailey and Marian Tupy. Marian was a guest of ours about a month ago. First, I want to congratulate you on the book Ronald but also to say it's beautiful. It's just a beautiful book.

  • Well, I'm thinking honestly several copies of for people at Christmas, because it's something that needs to be distributed among my family members. And not because they're anti this, but because I think they are often misinformed. Let's open with a question that you asked in the Introduction to the book: Why do so many smart people wrongly believe that, all things considered, the world is getting worse?

  • I haven't read every word of it. I perused through the whole thing, and I'm about halfway through the full book. But one thing I wanted to know, thousands of years from now people are going to dig up our stuff and wonder why many of them have an apple, half bitten apple on them, right? They'll be able to figure it out from our records, not just that. So let's talk about the Ten Trends. The first trend is the Great Enrichment, and we've had Deirdre McCloskey on [twice, Episode #6 and Episode #293] Trend Two is the end of poverty.

  • I want you to take it even a step further. Because you do mention this, at the very end of the section, you say the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, expects the economy will grow by $600 trillion by 2100. What will that mean for our children and our grandchildren and even the grandchildren of those in Sub-Saharan Africa?

  • I've said there are people worried about future shock. I have future glee. And I want to be around for some of this stuff. All right, well, trend number three asks a question. So I'll just ask it: Are we running out of resources? 

  • And then I hear this, “but what about the rare earths that are all in China? What about the rare earths?”

  • So Trend Four is a peak population. Shorter answer is we haven't reached it, but we're getting close. But my question to you is what happens when the population starts to decline since we've not experienced that, except for tragedy. This would be a situation where it's not tragic?

  • Well, let's try to get another: Trend Five in here before our break, and that is the end of famine, which is just amazing. But the question that I hear after I mentioned this to people that famines have gone away is, “Oh, but what about GMOs?” But that is what has prevented famine.

Ed’s Questions: Segment Three

  • Ed Kless here again with my friend Ron Baker, and we have today the author of the newly released book Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting and I love that subtitle, too. Unfortunately, we're probably not going to get to the many others that you'll find interesting today but let's talk a little bit more about Trend number Six. You alluded to this in the last segment toward the end, which was the end of famine, and Trend Six is more land for nature.

  • Trend Seven is planet city. We all remember the planet city in Star Wars fame. I think this is an interesting trend. One thing I did want to ask you about this, though, is do you still feel the same in light of COVID-1—that we are going see this trend continue towards cities?

  • Outstanding. Trend number Eight is democracy on the march. The chart really shows the incredible increase in democracy across the world not since like the 1940s when you would think it is, but actually since the 70s is really when the switch began to occur. And yet again, there's still fear, just today I had a friend post on Facebook if you vote for x you are voting for the end of America as we know it.

  • Trend number Nine is the long peace. I felt very personally connected to this one, because both my grandfather and father—I can remember conversations with them—who said, “You know, Ed, it’s likely that you or your brother will end up going to war at some point.” I grew up in the 70s and early 80s. And it was still the belief among that generation that this would happen. But this trend shows the number of wars and interstate wars have just been trending down and that's been a wonderful thing. So talk about the long peace.

  • Let me just give you an opportunity on both democracy on the march, and the long peace, something that's been in in the news lately. China, and maybe specifically comment on Hong Kong, is there a concern there?

  • Just quickly as follow up, are you concerned about that at the government level or more at the private sector level with say, Facebook, Twitter, that kind of thing? It's convoluted.

  • Yeah because the private sector is like the government could take that over. Well, the last Trend in the top 10, as I said, I think there are 78 total trends in the book, and maybe we'll get to one or two of the others. But number 10 is a safer world. And by that you mean the significant reduction in deaths from natural disasters from 1900 until the present. Talk a little bit about that.

  • Great stuff. Well, that rounds out the top 10. Now, I'm excited to have about three minutes to get to some of the some of the other trends and the one that jumped out at me is Trend number 14, which is global inequality is falling. And then the response is always “But what about local inequality?” And Ron and I like to ask this question, “Is it fair that Jeff Bezos is so rich? And what's my fair share of his money anyway?”

  • All right, well, let me see if I can sneak one of the later trends in on you, because this is one I think that most people would not even get close if you asked them what the percentage was that have access to electricity. Trend number 60 reveals that 86% of the world has access to electricity. I don't think there's anybody that I know would get that right at all.

  • No, I don't want to camp one night, 100,000 years of human civilization means I sleep inside. Unless you want to great but I don't want to. Well, the book again is Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know: And Many Others You Will Find Interesting by Ronald Bailey and Marian Tupy. We highly recommend it.

Ron’s Questions: Segment Four

  • Welcome back, everybody. We're here with Ronald Bailey, the science correspondent for Reason magazine. And Ron, I know that your first article in Reason on global warming was back in 1992. And you thought back then that the threat was overblown. And you even published a book, Eco-Scam, in 1993, I believe, which I read—I think that was the first book of yours that I read—and it really had a big impact on me. But you've changed your mind. And now you think it could well be a significant problem. What changed your mind? [Source: “Climate Change: How Lucky Do You Feel?,” January 2020, Reason].

  • No, that's a great point. And I also want to ask you, I just finished reading, about a month ago, Bjorn Lomborg's new book False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet, what's your take on that?

  • Like you said, take [econometric and computer models that project one hundred years into the future] with a vat of salt, not a grain of salt. I love that.

  • We've only got a couple minutes. But I’ve got to get this question to you too, because you probably know this guy, Patrick Moore. One of original founders of Greenpeace. I also just finished his book Confessions of a Greenpeace Dropout: The Making of a Sensible Environmentalist. Why the hostility to nuclear power from those most worried about climate change? China Syndrome?

  • Yeah, you know, Michael Moore's new movie, Planet of the Humans, apparently blasts solar and wind power as really expensive, but he's reverting back to the population problem. It's too many people. We have too many people.

  • Excellent. Well, Ron, thank you so much. It's been such an honor having you on long, we are longtime fans. Keep up the great work. And Ed, what do we have coming up next week? 

Ed: Next week, We're going to welcome Margaret Wheatley to our show, author of Leadership and the New Science, and some other really wonderful books.

Ron: Fantastic. All right, I'll see you in 167 hours.


Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Bonus episode 107.1 — “Conversation with Robert Wood” AND 107.2 — “DOJ moves against Google” — features our new partnership with 90Minds and an amazing rant from Ron about the DOJ.