Episode #528: Questioning Conscious Capitalism — Fifth interview with Kimberlee Josephson

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In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Kimberlee Josephson for her fifth appearance on The Soul of Enterprise. Dr. Josephson, an associate professor of business at Lebanon Valley College and adjunct research fellow with the Consumer Choice Center, brings her extensive expertise in global sustainability, international marketing, and workplace diversity to our discussion.

We delve into the complexities of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) criteria, examining their impact on business operations and economic freedom. Dr. Josephson shares her insights on the challenges ESG poses to free-market principles and the potential consequences for entrepreneurs and consumers alike.

Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that explores the intersection of corporate responsibility and economic liberty, and gain a deeper understanding of the current debates surrounding ESG in today’s business landscape.

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Who remembers that great Penn and Teller show called B*llshit? Classic Libertarian move as Ed brings this up at the beginning of the show. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_%26_Teller:_Bullshit 

• “When we think about corporate social responsibility, businesses feel they need to be giving back to society. However, conscious capitalism leads to putting my stakeholders even before the interests of the firm.” —Dr. Josephson

• “The purpose of business is to create and keep a customer.” —Peter Drucker

• “My students—the majority of them are business majors—they have a vested interest in business. But most of them are interested also in serving or starting a non profit. So even those who are pursuing a business major don't have a positive view of the profit motive which I find to be pretty disheartening.” —Dr. Josephson

Segment two

• Dr. Josephson wrote a great article called, “Co-opting Capitalism: From Value Creation to Virtue Signaling” https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/co-opting-capitalism-from-value-creation-to-virtue-signaling/ 

• In Dr. Josephson’s article she references Dr. Carroll’s pyramid of corporate social responsibility. Here is a quick picture to help you visualize it

• Andrew Carnegie famously said, "The man who dies thus rich dies disgraced," meaning that it is more difficult to give away wealth wisely than to earn it in the first place

• “The beauty of a business is that it is made up of a network of people who create, coordinate, and collaborate the means for exchange, without necessarily sharing social values — which is why capitalism doesn’t need to be changed.” —Dr. Josephson in this article https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/co-opting-capitalism-from-value-creation-to-virtue-signaling/ 

Segment three

• “Do ESG and DEI Follow a Product Life Cycle?” by Dr. Josephson (hint: yes they do) https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/do-esg-and-dei-follow-a-product-life-cycle/ 

• Here is a great visual from Kimberlee’s article that shows the typical product lifecycle

• “Yes, the pendulum for ESG and DEI has swung, but not all the way. It would be wise to remember that today’s decline can become tomorrow’s trend if situations and circumstances along with market interest shift once again.” —Dr. Josephson in this article https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/do-esg-and-dei-follow-a-product-life-cycle/ 

• Here is a link to the Harvard implicit bias test, largely considered flawed today but extremely widespread in its use when released. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html 

Segment four

• “How Ethical Consumption Emboldens Certification Systems and Rent Seeking Agencies” by Dr. Josephson https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/how-ethical-consumption-emboldens-certification-systems-and-rent-seeking-agencies/ 

• Today I learned, when Fair Trade first came about, it was actually done primarily through church activist groups, and it was seen as well intentioned and meant to help poor producers in third world countries

• “If it’s really about the economy, can Dollar General fulfill its ‘food first’ mission?” by Dr. Josephson https://www.fastcompany.com/91235714/if-its-really-about-the-economy-can-dollar-general-fulfill-its-food-first-mission 

• Kimberlee brought up food deserts today on the show. Food deserts are areas where you have populations that have limited access to healthy foods and then also affordable foods

• “Business Schools Undermine Wealth Creation” by Dr. Josephson https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/business-schools-undermine-wealth-creation/ 

• A big THANK YOU to Dr. Kimberlee Josephson for joining us today. She is a PROLIFIC writer and professor. Please check out more of her work at this link https://kbjosephson.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #527: Building Your Ideal Practice — Roundtable with experts from Woodard

Join Ron and Ed for an engaging roundtable discussion with three dynamic leaders from Woodard: Patricia Hendrix, Heather Satterley, and Deborah Defer. These accomplished professionals bring their unique expertise in practice advancement, technology integration, and Client Advisory Services (CAS) to the conversation. Together, they’ll explore the evolving landscape of accounting, the role of automation, and strategies for business transformation. Tune in for insights, innovation, and inspiration from some of the industry’s top minds!

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• To start off the show today, Ron proclaims that “CAS is a ridiculous acronym and it’s not the AICPA’s fault. It needs to be branded and described by each firm.” Patricia and Deborah had some great insight on this one.

• “This whole CAS thing was a way for us to flip the narrative (that accountants are necessary but not desired), but I think it's only caused more confusion and really an identity crisis.” —Heather Satterley

• I ask [the firms I work with] if they have a vision, mission, and purpose. Many of them, 90%, say, “We're thinking about it.” Deborah Defer 

• “The vision, mission and purpose [of an organization] really drives everything in your business. Without one, it's like wandering around in the world without any direction. It’s being in business for the sake of being in business, versus being in business to actually make an impact on the world.” —Heather Satterley

Segment two

• How does Heather get a firm to think about their niche? Consider these questions: What is the makeup of their practice? Who are they working with? Where are they seeing the most successes in what they're doing currently? Where are they getting the most satisfaction, both on the firm side and on the client side?

• “Once you know what your ideal client profile is then you have two tasks. One is to go back and look at your current client base and measure each one of them against your ideal client profile. Then decide what you're going to do with the ones that don't measure up.” —Patrica Hendrix

• “We, as accountants, went into a service based business. We like to serve and we don't know how to say no. So accounting firms end up getting 25-30 different industries that they try to focus on.” —Deborah Defer

• I see a turning point when we're coaching people. There's a turning point when they really get confidence in themselves and say, “I know I'm delivering a good product. I know I'm valuable and I'm pricing to my value.” —Patricia Hendrix

Segment three

• “As part of the seven ideals in building an ideal practice, three stand out to me that are probably my highest priorities: technology, people, and process.” —Deborah Defer

• Regarding finding talent in the industry, Heather had some amazing insight for us today. Here’s a great quote, “Where we kept shooting ourselves in the foot was putting that word ‘accountant’ in the job description.” —Heather Satterley

• “I think that it's very belittling to have to be accountable for every six minutes of a person's time.” —Deborah Defer

• Regarding the billable hour, “The struggle is because most of these smaller firms are paying their staff by hour. They're thinking how much am I getting done in any given hour?” —Patricia Hendrix

Segment four

• Regarding future tech trends: “People are pretty excited about AI. I think that it'll be really interesting to see how firms are ACTUALLY using it.” —Heather Satterley

• Regarding a future business trend: “So for the longest time nobody that I spoke to was even thinking about selling their practice. They were just going to work till the day they died or hang their shingle up and be done.” —Patricia Hendrix

• Regarding future business/tech trends: “Firms that are just starting to look at AI from a risk perspective have already missed the train. It's going 10,000 miles an hour and these firms are going to get gobbled up.” —Deborah Defer

• A big THANK YOU to Heather Satterley, Deborah Defer, and Patricia Hendrix for joining us today. 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #526: Engagement From The Inside Out — Interview with Jordan Birnbaum

In this episode of “The Soul of Enterprise,” hosts Ron Baker and Ed Kless engage with Jordan Birnbaum, co-founder of Glinda Group, to explore the intersection of behavioral science and business strategy. They discuss how applied social science can drive measurable improvements in employee engagement, leadership development, and organizational culture. Jordan shares insights from his extensive experience, including his tenure as Chief Behavioral Economist at ADP and his entrepreneurial ventures in the entertainment industry. Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of how behavioral principles can be harnessed to enhance business outcomes and foster a more engaged workforce.

NEW SHOW FEATURE: If you want to ask Ron or Ed a question and be featured on the show, please submit a voice recording from any device at https://thesoulofenterprise.com/questions

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• Fun fact: Jordan Birnbaum, our guest today, owned and operated a live entertainment venue in Hollywood, CA called The Vanguard.

• So what is Jordan doing now? He is the co-founder of Glinda Group. More info is available here https://glindagroup.com/who-we-are/ 

• “Business ain’t science.” —Ed Kless in the Harvard Business Review

• “Why Big Innovation Doesn't—Can't—Work at Large Companies” by Jordan Birnbaum at PsychologyToday.com. Link is here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-uncertainty-principal/202501/why-big-innovation-doesnt-cant-work-at-large-companies 

• Is authentic best defined as “being a narcissistic jerk”? Jordan had some great insight for us today during segment one

Segment two

• “It's not personal, it's business” —Michael Corleone. Our guest, Jordan Birnbaum, flips this statement upside down in his article called, “It's Personal—The Real Source of Business Success” https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-uncertainty-principal/202411/its-personal-the-real-source-of-business-success 

• Intrinsic motivation is, “I’m doing this because I want to.” If you can get people intrinsically motivated at work then you are on the right path. More in this article from our guest, Jordan Birnbaum https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-uncertainty-principal/202411/its-personal-the-real-source-of-business-success 

• Self determination theory is a deeper dive into intrinsically motivated employees. More here https://selfdeterminationtheory.org/theory/ 

• If the Chicago Bulls were a corporation, Michael Jordan would have been promoted to the coaching staff after his rookie year. Because he was a great player, the first thing we would do is ask him to stop playing. In the business world, we take our best players and turn them into coaches. Jordan wrote a GREAT article about this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-uncertainty-principal/202408/what-big-biz-can-learn-from-big-sports-about-human-assets 

• What are the six words that every worker needs to hear? Jordan Birnbaum tells us in this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-uncertainty-principal/202408/that-is-why-we-need-you 

Segment three

• What is a cognitive budget? You have a set amount of budget per day and just letting it get spent on unintentional things is wasteful. This concept is detailed by our guest, Jordan Birnbaum, in GREAT detail at this link https://globalriskcommunity.com/profiles/blogs/building-the-cognitive-budget-for-your-most-effective-mind 

• Jordan Birnbaum, our guest today, first heard about the concept of rumination on a podcast called Hidden Brain. Here is the link https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/regrets-i-have-a-few/ 

• “Creating a cognitive budget is a good way to be more intentional with your mental energy.” —Jordan Birnbaum in his article, Building the Cognitive Budget for Your Most Effective Mind https://globalriskcommunity.com/profiles/blogs/building-the-cognitive-budget-for-your-most-effective-mind 

• Ron mentioned the book “Humanonics” today during the show. Here is an Amazon link to the book https://amzn.to/4jM8V5j 

Segment four

• Is HR a destructive force in business? The individual HR professional certainly is not so why the disparity? https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-uncertainty-principal/202409/why-hr-doesnt-cant-work 

• If the performance appraisal is meant to give people a view into their performance then it should be structured one way. If it is intended to motivate and give guidance then it should be structured another way. But because organizations do both at the same time, neither works.

• A big THANK YOU to Jordan Birnbaum for joining us today. Do yourself a favor today and check out what he is up to at Glinda Group https://glindagroup.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits. 

Episode #525: Fractional CPO? Interview with Ethan Williams

In this insightful episode of The Soul of Enterprise, Ed and Ron are joined by Ethan M. Williams, the founder of Fractional Pricing Advisors and a recognized expert in value-based pricing strategies. With over two decades of experience in corporate strategy and a Certified Pricing Professional designation, Ethan shares his journey through roles at PwC, GE Digital, and beyond. Together, they delve into how businesses can unlock profitability by moving away from cost-plus models and embracing customer-centric pricing. Tune in to explore actionable strategies for transforming your pricing approach and driving value in today’s competitive market.

NEW SHOW FEATURE: If you want to ask Ron or Ed a question and be featured on the show, please submit a voice recording from any device at https://thesoulofenterprise.com/questions

SHOW NOTES

Segment one

• “You'll figure it out” are the simple words that started Ethan down the path of pricing. He now runs Fractional Pricing Advisors. More at this link: https://www.fractionalpricingadvisors.com/

• GE, PwC, McKinsey, and KKR help to round out Ethan’s qualifications as a pricing advisor. Based on the conversation today…..yes, he is qualified. 

• PR pros are timid on pricing. Accountants and consultants cling to cost-plus models. The common thread? The C-suite needs to understand the ROI / NPV.

• What industries are best suited for Ethan’s fractional pricing offering? Software companies and professional services companies between $50-150M in revenue have not had access to this type of expertise before.

Segment two

• Ethan’s reaction to the quote, “Pricing is part voodoo and part bingo.” ….from Ethan: “I’ve always said that it's like part investment bank and part David Blaine.”

• Truth talk: Professionals have been so jaded and the billable hour is endemic to them. They just can't break that cycle.

• In his time at auditing at PwC, Ethan noticed most Chief Accountants are from the big four. And the billable hour is what they know. That's what they want so it is a bit of a headwind when it comes to any meaningful change.

• “The majority of pricing mistakes are underpricing rather than overpricing.” —Ed Kless 

• “Is pricing an art or a science?” This is sort of Ethan meant when he was saying, it's a little bit David Blaine and a little bit investment banker.

Segment three

• “Value-based pricing isn't about arguing for a bigger cut of a static pie. It's about pricing your service as the best NPV alternative & then working in partnership with your clients.” —Ethan Williams of Fractional Pricing Advisors

• Ron referenced this in segment three of the show today: The pricer at Philips Medical breaks it into economic value, operational value, clinical value, emotional value, and then societal value

• From Ethan Williams of Fractional Pricing Advisors: Check out this article called “The B2B Elements of Value” from Bain & Company https://www.bain.com/insights/the-b2b-elements-of-value-hbr 

• Ethan had a GREAT take on the most important B2B metrics that help you understand if you are winning: “Winning in business comes down to 4 key KPIs: Average deal size, cycle time, win rate, and margin.”

• Where should the pricing authority lie in an organization? “There is no perfect answer but you need C-Suite support without a doubt.” —Ethan Williams of Fractional Pricing Advisors

Segment four

• “The best way to not hear no is to not pose a yes/no question.” —Ethan Williams of Fractional Pricing Advisors

• This is GREAT. Ethan Williams — our guest today — wrote a custom GPT called Value Based Pricing Advisor. Here is the link https://chatgpt.com/g/g-MNWgcA4wX-value-based-pricing-advisor 

• A big THANK YOU to Ethan Williams for joining us today. He is absolutely a pricing EXPERT and you can find more about him at this link https://www.fractionalpricingadvisors.com/ 

Bonus Content is Available As Well

Did you know that each week after our live show, Ron and Ed take to the microphone for a bonus show? Typically, this bonus show is an extension of the live show topic (sometimes even with the same guest) and a few other pieces of news, current events, or things that have caught our attention.

Click the “FANATIC” image to learn more about pricing and member benefits.