Ron and Ed welcome Kevin D. Williamson, fellow with National Review Institute and National Review’s roving correspondent. Kevin writes “The Tuesday,” a weekly newsletter. His latest book, Big White Ghetto: Stone Broke, Stone-Cold Stupid, and High on Rage in the Dank Wooly Wilds of the ‘Real America,’ was published in October.
Ron’s Questions: Segment One
Kevin, welcome to The Soul of Enterprise.
That speech [Ronald Reagan’s Moscow University speech that opens the show] was written by Josh Gilder, who is George Gilder’s cousin. We had Peter Robinson on a few weeks ago, who of course, wrote the Berlin Wall speech. So it's all it's all connected, Kevin.
We're sorry to bring you on during such a slow news week. But let me ask you this. You wrote about Ochlocracy—mob rule—in your book, The Smallest Minority. Should Trump be impeached?
Victor David Hanson has one of the most interesting takes on Trump, from a historical perspective, he calls him a tragic hero. The town brings in this guy to clean up the town and then once he does that, they kick him out.
Let me ask you this. I've never heard how you got to National Review. How did you wind up with at National Review?
Peter Robinson did that, too. He wrote to Bill Buckley and asked him for help. And that's how he landed as a speechwriter in the White House, through Christopher Buckley.
Did you ever get to meet William Buckley?
Excellent. It's kind of an unfair question, but what do you think Bill Buckley would think of Trump, and his administration?
I've heard you say that before. It’s a great retort. So Kevin, you wrote Big White Ghetto. It was published last year. Even my dad read it and absolutely loved it. I know it's from decade, or over a decade, of on-the-ground reporting, isn't it? You traveled all over, and you start in Booneville, Kentucky, seat of Owsley County. It’s supposedly the poorest place in the USA, but you say it's actually number three, when you look at the 2020 rankings. What confounds conservatives, liberals, and libertarians about that place?
You talk about how there's no cure for poverty, because there's no cause of poverty, it's the natural condition of mankind. So what do you think would help a place like this? Is it bourgeois principles? Is it the success sequence?
Like you say, get a U-Haul. Kevin, this has been great. Thank you so much. We're up against our first break.
Ed’s Questions: Segment Two
Our guest today is Kevin D. Williamson. And one of the books that Ron referred to in his opening that I'd like to talk to Kevin a little bit more about is his book called The Politically Incorrect Guide to Socialism. You think you know about socialism, but you really don't until you read this book. It's just fantastic. So let me get the first question out of the way: define socialism.
Kevin D. Williamson
Socialism is the public provision of private goods through central planning.
Ed Kless
And this can happen in countries that are considered capitalist, right? We have socialism here, things like the school system.
A question on that because you go into great detail on each of these places, Venezuela, Sweden, North Korea. The book is almost ten years old, maybe it is ten years old at this point, I think 2011 was the publication date. Are you surprised that these regimes have continued to last for another decade? Did you think that some of them were going to be gone by now?
As you were doing the research for the book, did you find that any of those brands of socialism worse than another, the ones that still exist today? Would you say North Korea is probably the worst? Or do you still have reservations about Venezuela, China?
China seems to be emerging to some extent because of the markets. But Ron and I have a real concern for what's going to happen in Hong Kong. Have you any thoughts on the situation in Hong Kong? What's going to happen there?
It would be great for us just from a mindshare perspective. You know, we play Reagan's speech about the economy in mind. And to have those great minds come here, it would be fantastic.
Are you familiar with Jimmy Lai at all, he is a dissident leader over there? We've talked to Father [Robert] Sirico about him what a tragic story, he refuses to leave. He just he stays.
And [China’s] social credit score that they've implemented, it’s a horrible thing. You find out that you do something against the government, you can't buy a train ticket, can't buy a plane ticket, you’re really locked into where you are.
Some of us even will even have two devices [to be tracked on], not only your phone, but your watch, just as a backup system. But we're up against our next break.
Ron’s Questions: Segment Three
Welcome back, everybody. We're here with National Review roving reporter, Kevin Williamson. And Kevin, before I get back to Big White Ghetto, just to follow up with the conversation you were having with Ed about Hong Kong. I do believe the UK has started to admit some of those people. I think they've done 200,000 or 300,000 visas, from what I understand. But what about China? What’s your take on the NBA, Nike, Apple, all these companies, Disney, absolutely capitulating to censorship and other forms of government control, all the while this stuff with the Uyghurs is going on, and everything else. I mean, do you see any way out of that?
Yeah, it's really a conundrum. There are no easy answers, are there?
Back to [your book], Big White Ghetto. There was a chapter where you were in Alabama, and at one point it was the number one place for opioid prescriptions being written. But you say that Ground Zero of the opioid epidemic is at Walgreens. Explain that.
You also wrote about Colorado’s legalization of marijuana. And you say the stoners rejoiced, but not so much the cops in Nebraska.
You do a podcast with Charles Cooke, Mad Dogs and Englishmen, and he wrote the book, The Conservatarian Manifesto. Do you identify with that sentiment?
Charles has got an incredible accent. One last point, we’ve got about a minute, but I have to tell you, you wrote an article back on November 25, 2020 on raise the entrance fees to national parks [“Raise the Entrance Fees for Our National Parks”]. Kevin, I can only imagine the hate mail you must have got for this. But I thought it was brilliant. You pointed out that a family of four will spend 4200 bucks to go to Disneyland for a week, but it's 35 bucks to go into Yellowstone. But then you made a really profound point. You said a nation that isn't ready for meaningful Yellowstone pricing isn't ready for meaningful carbon pricing.
It was a great article, I had to tell you how much I enjoyed that.
Ed’s Questions: Fourth Segment
We are back on The Soul of Enterprise with Kevin Williamson. Kevin, thanks so much for appearing, we've got one more segment with you. I wanted to turn your attention back to your book on socialism, but only because, this is something that Ron and I talk about often in a business context, and that is the notion of socialism, it sometimes puts inappropriate measurements in place. The example that you give is that in the Soviet Union, they used to measure nails by the pound. So, as a result, they made big, really big nails, and they had plenty of them, but no little nails. But then the same thing takes place in the education system with regard to measurement. Talk a little bit about that.
And, of course, the public schools really came into being in full force during the Progressive era, when this whole measurement thing came about. What I really loved about your book is the story you tell about how Woodrow Wilson was responsible for a socialist coup in the United States. Talk a little bit about that.
Fair enough. Wilson was definitely of a socialist mindset. I mean, he brought everything through the war, the war mentality to everything he did.
We've got about two minutes left, and just to pick up on the theme that we started with. Of course the country recovered from Woodrow Wilson’s socialism. We've been able to recover. What does the country do, maybe even specifically the GOP, to begin to recover post-Trump?
I think that the sleepy-Joe moniker might be what we're all looking for. That would be great. If we could be sleepy for a while. All right, Kevin Williamson, on that note, we are going to wrap things up. Ron, what do we have coming up next week.
Ron Baker
We have Art Carden, Ed, who's the co-author along with Deirdre McCloskey of Leave Me Alone and I'll Make You Rich.
Links to Kevin D. Williamson’s writings and podcast:
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Kevin’s Amazon page is here.
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